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Is the sky falling after all?

Is the loss to Stanford the end? Is it the beginning of the end?

In the aftermath of the loss to Stanford, ESPN published an article by Mark Schlabach, in which he wrote: "The Trojans are a football dynasty no more, thanks to the smart kids from Stanford..."

Others are less dramatic, but it's clear that various professional writers are acknowledging that the old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be, over the course of last season and this season. Say what you will about Plaschke, but these are fair observations:

There are problems with on-field discipline, there are problems with late-game focus, there is a general lack of fire in a program that once burned enough to consistently keep 90,000 folks warm.

A Pete Carroll-coached team that has been penalized more yards than anyone in the Pac-10? A Carroll team that is tied for last in the conference in sacks?

When is the last time Carroll's defense ranked last in the conference in takeaways? When is the last time that defense tied for last in giving up fourth-down conversions?

As Trojans fans know, this malaise didn't just start with Stanford.

I'll start out by saying that the notion that the dynasty is over is a load of crap. Leaving aside the hazardous question of what constitutes a dynasty in a season where the alleged parity of college football has actually appeared two weekends in row (two!), it's extraordinarily unlikely that everything has come crashing down and the remaining games will be a washout. But there are problems, there's no question about that.

The difficulty in prognostication, of course, is trying to work out just how bad the damage is and whether a quick recovery is possible -  something which all of us here on CC have been hashing out over the last several days. Looking at it from the player standpoint: On the one hand, you've got a QB who just isn't quite fitting in the system, wide receivers who can't drop the ball, offensive line back-ups who don't know the schemes, etc., etc. On the other, you've got an emerging young QB to watch this weekend, there have been injuries galore that have taken some guys out for a short period of time, and you never know when players are going to hit their stride.

Looking at it from the coaching standpoint, you do have to wonder a bit. Sarkisian was pretty frank about the shortcomings of his play-calling. Paragon has mentioned his concerns about Ruel's O-line coaching this season. Carroll seems a bit lost. There's no one person responsible for special teams, and so on.

For what it's worth, I think that the most interesting take I've seen thus far - and this is no surprise, comes from SMQ. I'm not going to quote his post here because it really merits being read in its entirety. He makes a comparison between Miami and USC - calm down, Bruins loyalists, it's not a side-by-side of the rap sheets - to look at the abrupt transition from top of the heap to just a heap. What makes the article - aside from the crazy idea of using some data and trends - is that SMQ acknowledges the limited predictive power of reasoning by analogy. In this case, he suggests that coaching and execution issues may be overcome by the players in waiting at SC; classes like the last 2 or 3 are unusual enough that it's hard to tell how they'll turn out.

Speaking of analogies, Scott Wolf returns to the Caesar nickname for Pete Carroll in reference to a Warren Bennis article from CIO Insight magazine (a contradiction in terms, surely?). The point of the argument is not that, to quote Wolf, "Julius Caesar never lost to Ptolemy XII of Alexandria so Peter C. Carroll should never lose to Jim Harbaugh of Palo Alto," the point is that Caesar was undone by his unwillingness to listen to others, which cut him off from usual information - information like "several Senators intend to perforate you with extreme prejudice." Bennis' point is worth thinking about in the light of the quote about Pete Carroll's coaching post mortem:

USC coach Pete Carroll gathered his coaches around a table Sunday afternoon and asked for advice following perhaps the most embarrassing loss in school history the night before.

"It was an open forum," Carroll said.

Of course, Carroll being Carroll, he did most of the talking about the Trojans' 24-23 loss to Stanford despite being a 41-point favorite.

"I pretty much led the whole thing," Carroll said.

Some might say that is one of the problems, that Carroll micromanages too much, but his staff said his input is valuable because he's been through these situations before.


What interests me is the balance of listening - did anyone push back, make observations, tell Pete Carroll something that he hadn't thought of? I don't know, and it might not matter. But there's little room for error if USC wants to make something of the season, and innovation never hurts when your opposition can predict what you are going to do, and knows how to defend against you.

In any case, we can but see how the next few games shake out. I'm not going to be cavalier and suggest that Arizona and Notre Dame are good "tune up" games, because that's what I said about Stanford, and the success is there to be seen.

Since that's going to free up some time, I plan to spend some time effort trying to come up with the best "fading empire" analogy that I can, just in case things don't go well. I'd been thinking about that the other day - supposing SC is in decline, which empire / dynasty does it most resemble? I spent some time thinking about the Roman Empire and the British empire, and even the post-WWII Pax Americana, as we used to call it. It's not the Incans, because they didn't have the wheels to fall off the wagon.

However, I realized I was going in the wrong direction with all of those, and that's because of a memory of the 2003 game against Auburn. At the time, I remember watching and thinking that the Barners looked stunned, like some mysterious cardinal horde had arrived from the west and sacked their temple. While comparing Jordan-Hare to medieval Baghdad may be a stretch, that's where I got the notion that the USC team of the last several years is like the Mongol Empire set up by Genghis Khan - the result of several years of relentless movement and thorough sackings. The Mongol empire was administered in a broadly meritocratic fashion rather than the usual influence peddling and whatnot, but it fell apart more quickly than others as well.

Obviously it's not a perfect metaphor - not enough children fathered by the great leader, despite Leinart's best efforts, and that's just one flaw. Still, it'll be something to consider if the shit hits the fan during the Arizona game.

And it's no sillier than decreeing that the sky is fallen, the end is nigh, and nothing will ever be good again... Not that anyone here would do that, but then we aren't getting paid per pageviews.

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SMQ
He makes some awesome and very creepy analogies between JDB and Brock Berlin.  Both came from the same high school, rang up huge numbers, both were the number #1 rated QB out of high school, both were/are very, very overrated in that whatever system they ran in high school masked some very significant limitations.

That's creepy.

The difference is that Spurrier realized that Berlin wasn't good enough.  I'm mean, Berlin was beat out by Rex Grossman! Unless Sanchez puts up huge numbers, we are stuck with JDB. Carroll's isn't that cold/brutally honest.  He also once famously said, "John David Booty is the future of our program." Carroll seems a little insecure.  He doesn't like to admit he's wrong.

The FSU decline came with the loss of strong assistants and the replacements with in-house, homegrown assistants who owe their entire career to the head coach.  I disagree with the Kiffin loss in that we complained about the offense and play calling last year as well. But the loss of Chow, Orgeron and DeWayne Walker has hurt us.

Yeah, Wolf is tool (it seems he trying to create a "shtick", perhaps because he knows the Daily News/print journalism is in retrenchment and he's looking for a broadcast gig) but because he's so close to the program, he has to blog in codes.  In retrospect, the "Caesar" title was in reference to Carroll's ego, his tendency to micromanage, and the seeming lack of pushback in Heritage Hall.  Last year Wolf blogged about a former assistant who spoke regularly to USC opponents.  It seems that the assistant was Jethro Franklin, and I'm guessing that he left after one year because he pushed back a little too much.

BTW: Interesting that Al Davis originally offered the Raiders job to Sarkisian, whom Carroll convinced to stay, but allowed Kiffin to go.  Was Kiffin pushing back?  Is Carroll planning on leaving after this year and did he promise Sark that he's take him with him as the O.C., which, natch, is still a better gig than being head coach for Al Davis.

by Zoulou on Oct 10, 2007 9:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That was pretty creepyn at SMQ
Great article DC! What about an analogy to the Reagan administration and the legacy he left for Republicans of today? (who plays Dubya though?)

I couldn't agree more Zoulou (btw: your recent posts in diaries and articles have been insane. i've copied some to word docs- learned and still learning a ton from your stuff. knuckle touch). The whole Berlin/Booty similarities have me spun. Berlin was a tough mutha, JDB seems more cerebral. I think JDB is a super-smart player, nuanced in ways that the offense hasn't quite grasped yet (i know, after 1 1/2 years. .you'd think?). It's almost as if he's bored. The more I see it, Oski has it down pretty good. Our receivers are killing us!

I'll have to reserve judgement on the demise of the PC-dynastic era until it actually REALLY starts happening. If the Pac10 title is ultimately lost and we end up at the Holiday Bowl, THEN I'll think there's something to all this talk.

Receivers?
Takeaways.
Special teams?

We (PC and staff)can address these issues but the players have to show up/hold up their end of the bargain.

Until the players transfer and the Pac10 is lost, we're still as bad as we wanna be on any given Saturday.

by tapoutstylist on Oct 10, 2007 10:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

great
great article,made me think,i think pete has to hire an oc with a great resume,maybe even a spread minded coach,all the high schools in california are running it,might help get some new blood in,i for one of the only times in my life have no answers, i hope its not over,pete just needs to find a guru on the other side of the ball,maybe look in div 1 aa like oregon did helped them,all we are missing is offensive talent coaches and players,and troy will not go down in flames,usc needs to start running up the points again,my favorite usc moment was against oklahoma in the natinal championship they had just scored again and somebody spiked the ball and drew a celebration penalty,another trojan picked up the ball in the endzone and spiked it again in the refs face,swagger like miami had ,i miss it

by PACTENGURU on Oct 10, 2007 11:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

those were the days eh, pactenguru?
i want that swagger back too. something fierce like.

is it that Sark ain't got it, or that PC needs to have his assistants be more assertive in demanding respective protocols to be adhered to during practice and gametime?

the spread would be nice with Sanchez, Mustain, and Corp in the wings. can you imagine our TB's, TE's and WR's in the spread? that would be bananas!

by tapoutstylist on Oct 10, 2007 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing SMQ didn't point out.
The similarity between USC and Miami relying increasingly upon out-of-state recruits.

I'm not a big fan of too many OOS recruits.  These are 18 y.o. kids after all.  The bulk of a program's talent should be in-state. The Floridas, the Ohio States, the Texas' complete year after year and the bulk of their recruits are in-state.  Some schools have to rely upon OSS recruits, like the Iowa in the Big Ten and the Oregon schools, and that's why, IMO, there is a three to four year cycle between seriously competing for a conference championship.

It's also a reason why ND as well really only competes every few years.  ND is always the exception in college football, but the days of taking all the great kids from the Catholic schools of Chicago, Detroit and Northeastern Ohio are gone, and they have to play second fiddle in southern Michigan (to Big Blue) and eastern Ohio.  Penn State joining the Big Ten didn't do ND any favor, either.

I guess Nebraska was the great exception, but their run was pre-Internet and modern scouting and recruiting techniques. It's why NU, for the most part has become the Oregon of the Big 12, only seriously competing for the conference championship every three or four years.

by Zoulou on Oct 10, 2007 11:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
I was encouraged by the out of state recruiting, partly for the speed on defense. I've always thought that Carroll's main differentiator in the Pac 10 wasn't necessarily offense - this isn't the Big televen, after all, there's a little innovation going on - but in the SEC "speed kills" approach to defense. And you need to extend your reach beyond CA a little bit to get that, IMHO.

by DC Trojan on Oct 11, 2007 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But three of our two-deep WR's are OOS.
And we lost a few local kids early to UCLA, so now we have to go OOS to make it up.

If recruiting beings to fall, will fans be asking for Brendan Carroll's head in a noose?  

by Zoulou on Oct 11, 2007 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One other thought
I've been thinking about the "football smarts" of the current players. If you consider Lofa Tatupu, or even Groetegood or Sartz, they were a little small but they were fast and knew where the ball was going. I don't know that I see that as much this year - nothing I could put my finger on, but I wonder.

Part of what triggered that thought was looking at a replay of Stanford's winning touchdown - whoever it was that was covering Bradford (?) plainly had lost the ball and the direction of play. I'm not going to criticize a defensive player for being shorter than a wide receiver and getting out-jumped, but on fourth and potentially game, you need to know where the pass is going.

by DC Trojan on Oct 11, 2007 7:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Where was Rey?
4th and 20 and a pass is completed in the middle of the field?  I'm not an expert, but I would think that Rey should have been back there in the deep zone. And where is Rey in any passing situation?  That seems to me a great weakness of the D, Rey is just not constitutionally hardwired to play the Cover 2 zone.  

Still, that was a great throw and catch, there were three guys surrounding him.  WE shouldn't take that away from the kids.

As for "football smarts", maybe that's why Jordan Campbell was practicing back at linebacker rather than FB. Perhaps Carroll's realizing the limits of position switches based mainly on physical stature.

by Zoulou on Oct 11, 2007 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said re: the Tree
WE shouldn't take that away from the kids.

That's a very fair point. It's too easy during a postmortem to act like SC gave the game away but it's not like Stanford was just standing around to pocket the win.

by DC Trojan on Oct 11, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That one's on the coaches
It was Mozique McCurtis who was covering Bradford on that last Stanford TD.  Mozique is our 4th string CB (after Carry Harris, Shareece Wright, and Vincent Joseph) and is more of a safety that CB anyway.  He should never have been covering their best WR on that play (and, in fact, Terrell Thomas had covered Bradford on previous down and successfully stopped them).

As I understand it, the coaches didn't think that Staford would go to THE EXACT SAME PLAY as the one before, and changed up the coverage.

Goes back to the arrogance of the coaching staff, which is something that Pete Carroll admitted to on Monday and promised to correct.

We'll see.  I think it will be.

by Monroe on Oct 11, 2007 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for clarifying
Interesting point re: changing up the coverage... because it's not like SC never runs the same play twice or anything. Sigh.

by DC Trojan on Oct 11, 2007 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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