Weber On USC Basketball
by M. AGRIPPA on Jan 19, 2012 11:27 PM PST
Email
Print[Bumped - seems to capture a lot of the frustration about the state of the program - DC Trojan]
Dan Weber of USCFootball.com drops a nuke on Kevin O'Neill's apologists.
They say this season doesn't matter. And that may be true. If it did, would so many of USC's basketball scholarship athletes be transfers standing around on the court in street clothes before every game unable to play?
Has a day gone by this season when someone around the USC basketball program hasn't lamented how the Trojans "lost one whole recruiting class" in the NCAA mess when Derrick Williams & Co. were released? But if that were true, how in the world does a program go out and sign players who can't come in and play right away?
What if Kentucky's John Calipari reported in to Wildcat fans that there was no way they could expect him to compete this season because his last two classes were all gone -- off to the NBA after a year each in Lexington? You think that'd fly?Then why does it fly here? Three years is two lifetimes in the one-and-out world of college basketball these days. Williams has come and gone at Arizona. And yet a not-very-talented Wildcat team still beat USC at Galen.
Who would do what USC has done here? Who would complain about losing a class and then bring in a class that was already lost to this year? And then say you don't have any players? What sense, other than excuse-providing, does that make?
We can argue all day about KO's coaching ability, but his incompetent recruiting strategy is the elephant in the room. What if LFK had screwed things up like this, would we be so willing to write off a football season?
Enough said, read the article.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors.
26 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
There's some good stuff in that article...
…particularly about how the cupboard wasn’t bare, and that O’Neil has underachieved with the talent he inherited.
But I disagree with the notion that rebuilding is unnecessary. The sanctions and the departure of Floyd set USC back. Few schools can replace an entire team with one class like Calipari does. Plus, USC does not (and can not) follow the UK model. The USC model under Haden will be more like Duke. It will involve a core of 3-4 year high-character players, who will develop and improve with experience. There will be an occasional lottery pick who will leave early. When several key players graduate, they will not be replaced by guys who are one season from the NBA draft. Rebuilding will sometimes be necessary.
My biggest criticism of O’Neil isn’t that he’s no John Calipari, it’s that he’s no Mike Krzyzewski. He’s shown little to suggest that he will succeed in building the type of team that USC aspires to be. Next year is a critical year for USC basketball and KO.
Agree with this. Does Dan Weber know that we received severe NCAA sanctions? IU and OU struggled after sanctions too.
But I disagree with the notion that rebuilding is unnecessary. The sanctions and the departure of Floyd set USC back. Few schools can replace an entire team with one class like Calipari does. Plus, USC does not (and can not) follow the UK model. The USC model under Haden will be more like Duke. It will involve a core of 3-4 year high-character players, who will develop and improve with experience. There will be an occasional lottery pick who will leave early. When several key players graduate, they will not be replaced by guys who are one season from the NBA draft. Rebuilding will sometimes be necessary./blockquote>
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
And is he really going to hold Calipari up as some model coach?
Guy leaves a wake of major violations and sanctions everywhere he goes.
Kentucky’s are on the way I’m sure.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
I think Dan makes some fair points in that article.
But overall it’s not a fair take, and his tone reveals it.
"Ain't no tuition for having no ambition." -Brandon Carswell
Ouch!
As much as it pains me to say this, after watching the way this year’s team has been playing- Kevin O’Neil isn’t the right coach for USC basketball.
SoCal’s been right all along: his offense is offensive. Coach KO is beyond a major control-freak on the sidelines and (to be sure) his coaching demeanor is probably a big reason why:
A. his players need years under their belt in his system to finally flourish
B. certain HS recruits decide to play elsewhere because of this
C. USC will perennially be a mid-tier conference winner, hardly ever making it into March Madness/NCAA tournament play.
Let me just say that AD Pat Haden had better not make the same mistake with KO as Ucla AD Dan Guerrero made with Coach Neuheisel. Haden is doing the proper thing in showing some degree of outward support for KO, but he also must be a diligent and prudent administrator of USC athletics by drawing up a short-list of potential future basketball head coaches in case Coach KO supremely falters. In other words, if USC doesn’t win a Pac 12 game this year (there’s always that possibility, I’ve seen them play and so have you)- Coach KO gets KO’d.
I never liked the O'Neil hire
I think we need to start fresh. It was bad in Arizona when Lute comes back only to fire O’Neil, and then quit again. Word is that the entire team was going to revolt if O’Neil stayed at head coach.
I had a problem with the Article - starting with the Title.
“No need to keep score, it’s only basketball" makes one think SC should be content with just Football – bull shit. But skimming through it, I agree wholeheartedly – if Football were handled the same way – he would be gone.
by trojanarchitect on Jan 20, 2012 10:28 AM PST reply actions
Weber doesn't do sarcasm well
The title (indeed the entire column) is an accusing finger pointed directly at PH.
"That's what the FBI can never understand - that what Paulie and the organization offer is protection for the kinds of guys who can't go to the cops. They're like the police department for wiseguys." Henry Hill, Goodfellas.
Feeling Loco?
Haden doesn't want to deal with it this year
I suspect that Haden, being a football guy like Garrett, really has no idea of who is out there who might fit his profile of a head coach.
Garrett’s MO was simple — find an unemployed, ambitious professional coach or athlete.
1. Pete Carroll, Tim Floyd, Chad Kreuter, Michael Cooper, Kevin O’Neill . . .
2. Recruits will flock to USC because they want to get the the next level . . .
3. Profit?
Worked out with Carroll and, to a lesser degree, with Floyd. Cooper is still up in the air, but it looks like Kevin O’Neill is going the way of Chad Kreuter.
It appears that Haden, with the assistance of Nikias (don’t forget Nikias’ influence in the AD. I suspect he is much more involved than Steve “Sports? Meh!” Sample), has a very general idea of what he wants the basketball program to become: high character, high graduation rate, no one-and-dones, more Duke and less Kentucky.
But Haden, at this time, has no idea how to get there because he isn’t a basketball guy. But then, the entire athletic department has no idea how to get there. Football has been the alpha and omega of the entire athletic department for 80 years, there doesn’t seem to be any institutional knowledge regarding men’s basketball. For all the cowardly trolls who pine for Mike Garrett, I have three names for you — Charlie Parker, Henry Bibby, Kevin O’Neill. A USC AD with that kind of track record in hiring football coaches would barely register as a footnote in the history of Heritage Hall. Mike McGee, anyone?
So I suspect that Haden’s “Give O’Neill another year” really means “Give me another year to figure this out.”
Haden’s "Give O’Neill another year" really means "Give me another year to figure this out."
Fine with me. I mean, I don’t really care about basketball, so this is only really a “what kind of program is SC trying to run” question for me – and I’d rather risk another down year than have some half-assed hire. Haden gave Kiffin time too, not in the sense that the results on the field were so bad in football, but to show that he could do better than the constant noise and fuss in Tennessee. I think that has paid off.
O’Neill is, ah, further along in his career progression than Kiffin, so realistically this isn’t a developmental issue. And based on the way things are going this year, it could really only be equally bad next season.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Next year is pretty much figured out
On paper, we should be a top 25, conference championship contending team. We shall see.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
I understand the give me another year BUT
Haden does have ex-players that he could talk to about a better hire, like Paul Westphal for one, Duane Cooper, Ronnie Holmes (shabazz’s dad), Don Carfino, Gus Williams, Bob Boyd and the great Bill Sharman.
Yes we can't play in a Bowl and that is lucky for the rest of College FB' but next year we at USC will dominate.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 20, 2012 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
I'm guessing he will
And as consultants, they are great. But individuals, however well intentioned, do have personal biases, so it’s important that the Department create an identity and a culture for the team that can carry over from coach to coach, Athletic Director to Athletic Director.
Thanks for bringing this article to the table Loco
I will not comment Dan Weber said it all and I will not say anything about O’neill ever again will not waste my time.
I will say this I believe I might be the longest Trojan Basketball supporter on this board since I have been following them for 42 years, I can still here my JC BB coach saying why USC and not ucla. Well because nobody in this town ever gave the Trojan Basketball program a chance since Sam Gilbert orchestrated the Plan B program for Wooden. Plus one of my friends from Downey Dan Carfino played for the trojans in the late 70s, coach Bob Boyd was the greatest. So to see USC FINALLY build their own arena and a fine one at that, I am CONFUSED why a guy like KO is the leader.
Yes we can't play in a Bowl and that is lucky for the rest of College FB' but next year we at USC will dominate.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 20, 2012 11:21 AM PST reply actions
Typo Don Carfino not Dan
Yes we can't play in a Bowl and that is lucky for the rest of College FB' but next year we at USC will dominate.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 20, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
I think people forget that SC came in second (or did well) often to ucla during their ‘golden years’ when you on had to win a conference to move on to the NCAA. If we had been in different conferences the perception might well have been different for SC BB. I know when I was in school Bob Boyd’s teams were really good. But even then it was a given USC = Football; ucla = Basketball.
Getting Galen built was a major feat on a long time dream. It needs to fully realized with competitive teams who are respected in play and do the fans proud.
Last night I went to the women’s game against Oregon. It was game and back forth until midway in the second then SC really started to dominate. They can shoot baskets and free throws. Usually I find watching WBB painfully awkward in skills sets, but not last night. Cooper & Staff must be doing something right….. Is the same too much to expect from the guys?
Oh that is right USC has two women’s titles – it has been a while but they are there.
PH does need to use the input of SC alums in the BB world…. if he does not know it. And if he doesn’t know who they are — he just needs to looked at their retire jersey banner hanging Galen. I am a more recent fan "in attendance" since Galen opened, even a Founder. I only went to BB games in school days because I never like the Sports Arena. It strangely never felt like ‘home’ like the Coliseum does. Galen needs to rocking not full of opponent’s supporters.
by trojanarchitect on Jan 20, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Next year is the make or break
Will the can’t coach/can’t recruit, KO firing squad eat crow if USC hoops wins the conference or makes a good tourney run in 2012? Will I eat crow if KO is fired this season or next? Inquiring minds want to know!
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Mmmm mmm good!
“Will the can’t coach/can’t recruit, KO firing squad eat crow”
Will not be on our menu.
“if USC hoops wins the conference”
Sorry Tex, but pigs will fly first.
“or makes a good tourney run in 2012”
KO hasn’t won a tournament game since the first Clinton administration. Two tournament wins to his credit. Both with Marquette 1994. His overall tourney record (NIT and NCAA) 2-7.
(P.S. Directly after leading Marquette to the Sweet Sixteen in ’94, KO left for Tennessee – odd?)
“Will I eat crow . . .?”
Oh yes, Tex, yes you will. Roasted well, and seasoned with sour grapes. It’s a traditional KO recipe, first served in Milwaukee back when Golden Eagles were Warriors. Bring plenty of beer to wash it down.
by uscdude on Jan 20, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Bahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! Yummy for the tummy!
A rocking post dude! That’s a rec!!!
Turn it GREEEEEEN!
"That's what the FBI can never understand - that what Paulie and the organization offer is protection for the kinds of guys who can't go to the cops. They're like the police department for wiseguys." Henry Hill, Goodfellas.
Feeling Loco?
It's what's for dinner
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Agree
Yes we can't play in a Bowl and that is lucky for the rest of College FB' but next year we at USC will dominate.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 20, 2012 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
I think a better Calipari comparison...
would be whatever coach had to to deal with all the sanctions from the program he left in his wake.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
+1
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Sanctions WHAT FREAKING sANCTIOnS
Forfeiting old victories and the one season is nothing and hasn’t hurt recruiting, also the one scholarship for 2 years didn’t hurt the team. That is it those are not really bad or non workable situations, considering that the year after Mayo left we were dock 2 scholarships for academic such as Mayo and Jefferson not completing class as happen with Love at UCLA too. Plus I know there was a reduction of recruiting day 20 and coaches, but that two only means you have to be on your stuff when recruiting out there, also 1 ride a year means 12 not 13 correct me if I am wrong KO usually only played 6-7 in those years.
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/sanctions-for-usc-basketball/
Yes we can't play in a Bowl and that is lucky for the rest of College FB' but next year we at USC will dominate.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 20, 2012 5:10 PM PST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
