Merci Beaucoup, Penitent Patrice Haden! USC Hoops Squad Thrown Out with the Bathwater by AD.
by DFWTrojan on Mar 12, 2011 3:00 PM PST
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PrintBumped - JK
Penitent Patrice Haden, aka, Chief Appeaser at Contrition Hall, doing his best impression of Prime Minister Edouard Dalaudier, may have just cost the USC Trojans men's basketball team a seat at the Big Dance, otherwise known as March Madness. In a shocking example of punishment that does not fit the crime, Patrice suspended Head Coach KO a mere few hours prior to USC's BIGGEST GAME of the SEASON. A game in which a win over conference champ and highly ranked Zona would have elevated USC to the magical 20-win threshold and all but assured USC an invitation to the NCAA Men's Tourney.
Did KO's absence make a difference in a close loss to the Cats? Many think so, including me:
"Though the Trojans pushed favored Arizona until the final seconds, they appeared distracted for stretches of the game and were clearly missing O'Neill's intensity until the end." Plaschke, LA Times
"It was different," center Nikola Vucevic said. "When KO's there, he yells a lot, and we didn't hear a lot of yelling today."
"Simmons comes out and the Cats capitalize with a 6-0 spurt to tie the game at 15. Some puzzling substitutions by USC so far." - Dan Greenspan, USC Scout, via Twitter
KO was suspended for a "verbal altercation" with a renowned former nemesis from KO's stint at UofA, Tucson car dealer and Lute Olson BFF, Paul Weitman. If you don't know the backstory at Zona, KO was the interim HC and hand-picked successor to Lute Olson, before Lute in full blown senility, decided to stab KO in the back and mounted a coup to return to his head coaching role. The story goes that Paul Weitman was instrumental in leading Olson's coup with the UofA administration. Money talks, especially at a desert school with more cactuses than scholars and fans infamous for their boorish, street thug behavior.
Despite no crime, no cops, no arrests, no lawyers, no charges, ......
...Penitent Patrice made the snap judgment in one afternoon to suspend the leader of USC's men's hoops program for the critical remainder of the Pac10 tourney based on Internet gossip from a Zona fan site. For a "verbal altercation". With a known instigator and enemy. In front of his wife. After a celebratory dinner w/ USC friends. Certainly, it appears that KO exercised poor judgement to even enter into an altercation with Weitman at all. But, is there any other school in the country who would implement such draconian punishment against their head coach for such a trivial matter, mortally wounding the team in the process? An undermanned team in the last year of sanctions who had scratched and clawed their way onto the NCAA bubble? An immature team team with a razor thin rotation full of fresh faces who embodied the spirit of the USC slogan, "Fight On"?.
Isn't this throwing the baby out with the bath water? Cutting off our nose to spite our face? Or, appeasing the enemy, which in this case was an Arizona fan site that "broke the story" .....a "story" with no named sources, full of sensationalization, and screaming biased, agenda-driven, Internet gossip to any person with a clue how to use the Internet, which apparently Patrice does not have? When did USC turn into BYU? Perhaps Patrice and his administration should go ahead and publish this apparently new honor code, so that the "USC Family" will not be flying blind, as Penitent Patrice will be quick to throw you overboard for even the most innocuous wayward step.
Disturbingly, the new Patrice parliament has quickly established a track record of appeasement and contrition in a brief, sniveling tenure:
- Penitent Pat started his act of remorse from day one: "We want to win the correct way, which we will," Haden said. "We're going to play within the rules." Apparently, USC was not winning the correct way nor playing within the rules beforehand? Hmmm, why appeal the NCAA sanctions then? Why don't you go ahead and refer to our former football coach as Cheatey Petey, Patrice?
- Penitent Pat and his parliament moved quickly to ban fans, boosters, and the local community from football practice, thereby further isolating our athletes from a well-rounded college experience and keeping troublemakers like Ryan Davidson, Ricky Rosas and Jake Olson far away from USC Athletics.
- Vigilance replaces Fight On as Penitent Patrice bows down to his NCAA overlords with the "respect that they deserve."
- Penitent Pat plays it "as close to the vest as we can" by suspending Dillon Baxter from the season opener and forcing him to donate $5 to charity.....for a ride in this.
- Penitent Patrice gleefully returns Bush Heisman BEFORE AN OFFICIAL RULING from the Heisman Trust and sucks Reggie into the appeasement strategy of Contrition Hall.
- Penitent Pat downplays Appeal success probability begging the question of why Appeal in the first place, and then adroitly shows his hand/bends over to further brown-nose the NCAA by promising not to pursue further remedy if the USC Appeal is denied. Or when, as it is apparently a foregone conclusion to Penitent Patrice that USC will lose.
- And, now, a few days after OSU AD Gene Smith and President Gordon Gee stood by their man, HC Tressel, who was caught in a web of lies and deceit to the NCAA but spared with a trivial punishment, Penitent Pat throws KO and the USC hoops squad under the bus at the nexus of their season for a........."verbal altercation" as reported by an Internet fan site!?!
Some may agree with Penitent Pat's decision, but I for one find the punishment grossly disproportional to the crime, and am even more concerned about Penitent Patrice's propensity for contrition and unwillingness to defend the honor of my alma mater against her many enemies. Said Penitent Patrice in announcing the suspension, "Coach O'Neill was remorseful and apologetic and accepted responsibility for his actions." Penitent Pat has been nothing but remorseful and apologetic since taking over Contrition Hall at your new University of we're Sorry and Contrite.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors.
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I usually like what you write
but I was mostly just offended by this. I’m one of the biggest KO guys on this board but I don’t think this is called for. BYU kicked their player out because the church that runs the university enjoys the good press they got from that incident more than they enjoy the press they get when athletics do well. Haden did this about as quietly and quickly as possible.
I went into this in excruciating detail on the god damned WeAreSC boards so I’m not going to explicate again, but I’m 100% behind Haden’s strategy and behind KO.
"I have a commanding voice." - Ed Orgeron
by RabbitSC on Mar 12, 2011 3:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Wholeheartedly agreed.
Rodney Sermons is my #5
by Brad Otton Is My Homeboy on Mar 12, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'll read what you wrong on WRSC
Not sure what was offensive, unless you are French or a Haden relative. Didn’t mean to offend, just venting an opinion.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
KO was introduced to a man's wife at the hotel bar where his picture was shot
He greeted her, and then said “Oh…. you’re a f&%$ing bruin,” when he saw her ucla gear. I don’t have a problem with how he was disciplined. You can’t have a guy behaving that way and not being punished. Just my 2 cents.
You have good sources?
any more insight?
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
A friend that saw it
the ucla wife thing wasn’t even reported. It happened before the U of A booster altercation. The man was drunk, and acting like an ass.
Are you thinking this may not be over?
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
UG FIREWATER A WHITE MANS DOWNFALL
I think KO will be jumping through a lot of hoops in the next 3 months to keep his job, if he does it great if he fails that is on him. Even though most people say you can’t change after a certain age I believe if you really believe in yourself you can do anything, so good luck to him.
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 13, 2011 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I told you this was coming...
It’s not just Pat Haden, its Max Nikias and the Board of Trustees. KO was baited, but he should have shown judgment and maturity. He didn’t.
Haden couldn’t have been more clear last July when he praised Stanford and Notre Dame and named them as the examples to follow. PH also said USC was going to win “the right way” and declared his special interest in women’s sports.
The signals couldn’t have been more clear. USC has joined the ranks of elite American universities and the Athletic Department has to behave in a way that is consistent with the University’s stature.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
+1, you've been saying it
and, I have been buying it. I just didn’t realize how severe and abrupt this transition was going to be. I feel it is very misguided. There is no moral high ground in college athletics. USC should stay true to ourselves, IMO.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Can’t say I disagree with you Tex. I’m just reporting it as I’ve seen it from the bleachers out here. It feels like the good times are soon coming to a close. Somehow I never felt the administration was all that troubled by the Hackett era.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
As an outsider ...
The way I see it, if you want to claim the moral/ethical high ground, you have to accept that you will have draconian measures in place against even the perception of stain. And, as an outsider, trust me when I say the perception surrounding USC over the past decade has most definitely not been of a school with even the most tenuous claim to any sort of moral/ethical ground at all, never mind high ground.
This isn’t to begin an argument about whether that negative perception of your school is accurate or warranted, mind you. But to believe it doesn’t exist is to not believe in a simple cold truth. It does.
Add to that the recent NCAA sanctions (again, not to start a discussion on whether they were warranted or not, but they are in place), and USC has a pretty steep hill to climb to clean up their image. Especially if your goal is to stanfurdize yourselves.
So, Haden’s actions in this case, while apparently too severe for some, were an absolute necessity. Anything less would have just brought back the perception among the outside that you guys are simply unable to be the good guys.
Now, while normally it shouldn’t matter what anyone else thinks, in the case of the NCAA and intercollegiate sports, reputation is important. And if Pat is serious about rehabilitating your image, you have to accept it. Particularly if a coach from a different team find themselves in an embarrassing predicament. Then you can point to it and say, “We handled things in a much less slimy way.”
Take this for what it’s worth.
I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.
by SoCal Oski on Mar 12, 2011 4:03 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well stated Oski. Perception is reality, therefore the last thing Max Nikias wants is the world saying his athletic department is still out of control. Blame Pat Haden, but he IS the Board of Trustees and they are in control now. The BOT will not allow anyone to derail Project Stanfurd.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
+1
You think so clearly and logically. It’s hard to believe that you once called Berkley home.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Basically Pat Hadens hands were tied and Kevin should have just went and studied film and devised a game plan or just stayed out of the line of fire.
As I know nothing good become anyone in the wee hours of the night, so why not just stay home.
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 12, 2011 4:29 PM PST reply actions
Hell, KO lives right around the corner. If he needed to down a few he should have gone home.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
Yah like any other 50+ person does unless he isn't that mature, I mean as a coach you set the first line of examples in ethics.
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 12, 2011 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
But at the same time
Since he’s so close, he could afford to stay at the hotel bar and just make the quick walk home. He’s within his right to drink there anyway.
by Joey Kaufman on Mar 12, 2011 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
This is true, but Tex makes the point that this was:
“USC’s BIGGEST GAME of the SEASON”
It’s obvious that KO didn’t think it was as big a game as we did, or he would have been at his office preparing for the game -and staying away from low-life scum.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
by M. AGRIPPA on Mar 12, 2011 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
in Japan
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 12, 2011 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Joey it's a freaking BAR have you ever worked in one, maybe you should to what really goes down after about a year.
Clubs are great for young people to get out and meet and dance, but hitting a bar for drinks is different and there is almost always problems. People get STUPID when they get a few under the beat and some comment crimes ether fighting or drunk driving. I know most know i taught tennis for a number of years but I have 20 plus years experience behind a bar (did it at night) plus have ran 2 sports bar, a billiards bar and the Bar Manager at the Tower Restaurant atop the old Trans-American building in 1991. But I will say this also freak the stupid Ncaa’s what about those poor people i
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 12, 2011 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I was pleased that O’Neil was using a taxi. That may sound stupid, but in the middle of all this other fuss, he did was smart enough to do something that too few other people do – which is keep other road users safe.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
It would appear the incident happened between 7-8 pm PST
not the wee hours of the night. based on the timestamps on the PGU story.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
I agree with Oski & S C Native on this....
KO should have been getting ready for the next day……. and he would have avoided the mess. I find it embarrassing period…. We all have hold back what we feel and think…. liquor loosing the lips and sinks ships…… isn’t that how it went?
by trojanarchitect on Mar 12, 2011 4:56 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Overreaction
I didn’t think that O’Neil’s actions were that bad, in the grand scheme of things, but a one game suspension wasn’t that big a deal either. The idea that the team was thrown under the bus at the nexus of their season is an overstatement. This is the same team which was sacrificed last year by Mike Garrett in the hopes of saving football from his ill-judged efforts to placate the NCAA; this year, they at least had the opportunity to play for a chance at a tournament on the court. They lost, it happens – they’re kids. But there’s no guarantee that they would be selected even had O’Neil not been suspended and had they won.
As for Ohio State’s display this week… I never thought I’d say this, but one upside of Mike Garrett’s ego was that he at least felt compelled to try and stand up to Pete Carroll once in a while. Gordon Gee in particular just confirmed to the college football watching population at large what a lot of us already knew: he’s a spineless lickspittle to the football boosters and Jim Tressell. That’s not a case of someone who is trying to “:defend the honor of [his] alma mater against her many enemies,” that’s a case of someone who is either too arrogant or too dumb to realize that sweeping it under the rug is a low-percentage strategy.
Content aside, I don’t care for the tone of this post. The use of the word “appeasement” as a pejorative implies a degree of moral cowardice – that requires a willful misreading of the historical context and is also massively insulting towards someone who is working a job within the structures and incentives that exist. You don’t have to agree with Pad Haden or me on the subject, but suggesting that he’s rolling over for the Nazi hordes is a rhetorical flourish too far.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Thank you for introducing me to my new favorite vocab word, lickspittle!
As the author, I would describe the tone as angry, indignant, and sardonic. On diction and the use of “appeasement”, I’ll run and hide before I enter into any debates with you regarding “historical context”, especially history in the European theater. However, one of Merriam-Webster’s definitions of “appeasement” is: pacify, conciliate; especially: to buy off (an aggressor) by concessions usually at the sacrifice of principles. IMO, that is a good description of Pat Haden’s actions as USC AD thus far.
I took the liberty of borrowing a comment from a message board from a USC hoops fan who seems equally as pissed off as I am. I think it may be easy to shrug off this situation from a thousand miles away or more, as I am, but it may be a whole new ball game if you are a diehard fan who has heavily invested both time and money into USC hoops this season:
Since becoming AD at USC you have finally convinced this Trojan fan to follow your examples. You have publicly stated that USC was guilty of NCAA violations and deserves punishment. Reggie Bush shamed the football program and O.J. Mayo shouldn’t have played because he really was ineligible. You believed in removing any and all references to Reggie Bush and the championship seasons that were vacated due to his ineligibility. After trying to defend USC athletics, coaches and players for years while USC was under investigation maybe it is time to finally agree with you and set an example as a fan in a similar way you have done with the programs.
…..Taking your examples to heart Trojan fans need to keep a short leash on the coaches and players. I will finally join you in your efforts to reel in the excesses of Trojan athletics……
The turning point in my agreement with your examples was your recent suspension of coach O’Neil for the PAC TEN basketball tournament. My family purchased tickets for the basketball home games all season and we attended almost every game at the Galen Center. I spent hours preparing for every game and driving down to USC to see the Trojan team play. I cheered from them on television for many days and nights during the last four months as they competed against other teams during away games. I followed the media writings about them week after week. I anxiously awaited the PAC TEN basketball tournament when I saw that the Trojans had a good opportunity to win games that could advance them into the NCAA tournament. My family and I had payed over a thousand dollars for season tickets and had been waiting all season to see this Trojan basketball team work to be in a position to win. Winning the PAC TEN tournament ended up not being as important as I once thought it was. Trojan fans like me have learned our lesson. Self sacrifice for the sake of the cause had to take the place of a fan’s self serving desire to see the head coach lead his team to possible victory.
I heard a rumor that coach O’Neil was involved in an “off the court and off campus” personal verbal altercation with an Arizona Wildcat booster in a bar/restaurant near the Staples Center after he lead the Trojan basketball team to hard fought victory over a very good Cal team. The afternoon before the biggest game of the year for the players and fans you suspended coach O’Neil for the remainder of the tournament. You set the example of discipline for coach O’Neil, the players and the fans. Trojan fans now need to lead with your example of discipline by likewise suspending some of their support too. As we learned in the PAC TEN tournament we all need to share in the self punishment. I am sure you would agree that we can only hope that the NCAA will see these fan initiated acts of self sanctioning as a further example that everyone involved in Trojan athletics programs including the long time fans are contributing to your high standards of compliance in order to correct the mistakes of the past. Hopefully we the fans can follow your continued examples of self sacrifice to set the standard for compliance and then we will be able to move forward hand in hand with the NCAA in order to achieve those goals they have established for us. – SocalRevs, USCfootball.com
From perusing the blogs, I would guesstimate that maybe 30% of fans are strongly against Haden on this issue, 50% are strongly in support of Haden, and 20% are somwhere in between. I may be overreacting, but I know that I am not alone. And, most importantly, I feel much better after my emotional venting! Thank you, CC!
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
It's possible I need to get off my high historical horse ;)
Don’t get me wrong, I think your underlying point is valid, I just don’t see this as being as bad as you and others do. It’s also easy for me to take it lightly because I just don’t care about basketball all that much.
That said, everyone has their limit. Taking a look at the story that Paragon has posted about conference revenue sharing, I would very much like to hear more from the Athletic Department as a whole about what they’re up to. It’s one thing to manage an already bad situation, it’s another thing to potentially mess up non-revenue sports for the sake of appearing to be a good “corporate citizen.”
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Heh, their frame of mind is probably “if it’s good enough for Stanfurd it’s good enough for USC.”
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I can see why they are using the furd as a model, but for gods sake you have to have some kind of Identity.
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 13, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Furd One Better --
Meaning USC w/ major sports. We forget Standford has had its ups and downs in FB. When they have a good team and coach – they loose the coach then mediocrity sets in again….. as it likely it will now.
I think we need to not be overly pessimistic. It is a rough period for SC major sports but it has been only a year of PH. I do agree that I wish he would be clearer on the long term goals for major sports not just the addition of more women’s teams. On the financial arrangements in the other postings .. I am just following along…
by trojanarchitect on Mar 14, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
the only hope of adding men's teams in the future
is to add more women’s teams first. Title IX and all that. I still have hope for a men’s soccer team.
I agree that letting us know the long-term plans would be nice…
"I have a commanding voice." - Ed Orgeron
yes
Agree on the men’s soccer addition – it would be a good one I think, especially being in LA where it is played everywhere. It would give me another team to back – being a dual-national I follow German Fussball.
Also, It would be fun to see SC with another team/sport with which to compete with ucla. I know had more men’s sports before Title IX….. so it would good to get some back or better get Baseball back to prowess.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 14, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
+1, men's soccer would be awesome! I'd be a huge fan from the get go
and, wouldn’t mind seeing women’s sand volleyball either!
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
I may be wrong...
But I think SC already has a WM Sand VB group that won nationals – but it is not yet a recognized NCAA sport. Does someone else know?
by trojanarchitect on Mar 14, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
We won nationals in '09
And I heard it was going to become an NCAA sport the next year. Now I just read that apparently the NCAA vote to add the sport was rather contentious (schools in states without beaches didn’t feel so hot about it), but it did eventually pass and will become an official sport this August, with play beginning in 2011 or 2012 (i’m not sure).
"I have a commanding voice." - Ed Orgeron
thanks for the info.....
Just wonder where our sand pit will be.
As far as the other beachless states, it just takes sand no water needed. There was a friend in Berlin who’s neighborhood had a “Malibu Beach Volleyball” center in what was a vacant lot near the former wall. Maybe the those inland states could just use a little ingenuity. I thought it was funny as hell when I saw it.
As seeing guys surfing in Munich on the rapids on a diverted portion of the Isar River in the Englishergarten.
A little bit of CA abroad.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 15, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Disappointing
Even though I’m sure the U of A fans were out to cause problems to some extent, and I’m sure the U of A booster had something to do with what happened, O’Neill pulled a bonehead move. Getting suspended for the next game is pretty reasonable. O’Neill just so happened to pull his bonehead move the night before one of the most important games of the season.
The “USC honor code” is simple. Don’t make the university look stupid… especially when you’re a public representative of the university. O’Neill made the university look stupid on a national stage, so he got a 1 game suspension. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
The amount of crap that Pat Haden gets from some of you guys just doesn’t make sense to me. You’re welcome to your opinion, but to me, it seems like you’ve forgotten just how much he’s done for SC.
Rodney Sermons is my #5
by Brad Otton Is My Homeboy on Mar 12, 2011 9:32 PM PST reply actions
For the first time ever, I agree with you.
One minor quibble
“The amount of crap that Pat Haden gets from some of you guys just doesn’t make sense to me. You’re welcome to your opinion, but to me, it seems like you’ve forgotten just how much he’s done for SC.”Please don’t generalize.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I loved Pat as a player, and as the AD choice
However, I find myself disagreeing with how he has handled things for the most part.
- KO suspension
- Baxter suspension
- Bush pre-emptive Heisman return
- Promise not to sue NCAA
- Closing practices, no exceptions
- Constant comments about how USC will “start doing things the right way”
- Consummate team player wanting to be chummy with the rest of the Pac12 while USC gets snookered in a +$10 million opportunity cost with equal revenue sharing
- Belittles USC fans with “do they believe in the 2nd shooter Kennedy conspiracy too” after question about USC’s statistically significant penalty handicap vs conference opponents
Much to my surprise and chagrin, I’ve grown to strongly disapprove of Pat Haden’s AD performance.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Mr. Dornsife: “I’m ready to donate $200 Million to make USC College one of the finest in the land.”
Pres. Nikias: “You won’t regret it! We are turning USC into the Stanford of Southern California”
Mr. Dornsife: “Yes, but when I read about all the problems with the sports teams it makes me worry that it will not happen”
Pres. Nikias: "Don’t fret, I’m working with the Board of Trustees and Athletic Director Haden to elevate USC athletics.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
Haha
Is that a realistic scenario? I envision most of the USC whales being diehard sports fans like us, e.g., Dr Buss, Ed Roski, and the Galens. Hell, even Max is a diehard!
Are there really USC whales who are willing to sacrifice athletics for the academic mission of the university? Who are these people? That is NOT USC! I want both, not one or the other.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
My 2 cents....
DFW I agree I think the vast majority of Trojan Alums and the Administration’s “Power Centers” want both. I think they are almost inseparable. As a guy who has seasons seats/tickets for the Coliseum & Galen…. I know I want both. There are many public faces to USC — from sports naturally very public to research less on the public radar. However there is lot in between – Community Involvement is an enormous. But in the end, sports is the glue that binds it….. just like a “City’s Team” like the Lakers, Dodgers. Even if one does not go to games or even care about them – the populace knows of them. The same could be said of any university but particularly major schools a la USC.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 13, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
athletics is "the glue that binds"
I think that is almost verbatim from the Max press release announcing the hiring of PH as AD.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
You tell me if it's realistic
I’ve met a half dozen Trustees over the years and only one is a USC sports diehard. It’s a small sample, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that every one of them is unhappy with the reports in the LA Times about KO’s moment in the spotlight.
The USC Board of Trustees consists of an extremely committed group of philanthropists that want USC (The University) to grow and prosper for the betterment of humanity and the Los Angeles community. Pat Haden is a former member.
Can it be any more clear? President Nikias and the BOT are firmly in charge of USC athletics. If they determine that Coach O’Niell is bringing more unfavorable attention to the university they will fire him.
This is USC.
FIGHT ON!
PS. If USC makes the Tournament, it will only make matters worse for O’Neill. CBS and its partners will do everything they can to sensationalize KO’s “admitted public drunkenness” during every USC game. CBS would want USC to dance just for the “human interest story” angle. This is what Max Nikias and Pat Haden are thinking about right now. KO is hanging by a thread.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
mum
For me there is no disagreement that the BOT’s primary thrust. Yes athletics is not independent from the BOT. Was it ever an independent body? If it had been, they could relocated like a professional franchise?
Is the of BOT focus to build-up SC academically a bad thing? Is the only that matters is Trojan FB, sports? If so then I guess the old Football U is your goal. I know it is not or at least that is what I have gleamed from you other postings. One does not have to be a rabid sports fan to see that it is a strong rallying point for any community. I think the BOT is smart enough to know that.
I do find it amusing how you have gone from being a critic of KO to a supporter.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 13, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, it looks like I didn’t express myself clearly. You kind of got it backwards. I am still a KO critic and this adds to my skepticism, but I’ll be damned if I let an enemy blog make my mind up for me.
The BOT cares very deeply about USC academics; they also care about USC athletics, just not as much as academics.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
My longtime dentist was a USC grad and he was the one that got me involved with USC but it wasn't just sports.
Even though he played tennis at USC he really didn’t talk about the sports programs that much, just about the Education and the support of the Alumni. As for KO I stand with Loco, but if KO could just tone his sideline BS down and start teaching all players I might change my stance. As it is I feel he is getting way to much money for what he does, in fact I feel all college coaches are beyond the realm of society.
BOOM_BOOM that was the sound of the DUCKs being shot down again in a BCS Bowl Game---I guess all that Slave Money can't buy a championship.
by so.cal.native1952 on Mar 13, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
exactly --
although I am an athletic supporter CG, Galen Founder etc… I give more each year to scholarships, general fund and the architecture school than to athletics. And as much as I go to events and love them — I am more proud of SC’s rise in academic standing.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 13, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting take...
Agree on SOME of the BOT…but not all.
How much of the USC athletic stature are you willing to sacrifice? It is clear Haden is willing but what about the general fan??
Do Ivy League schools care about fans? Most elite schools enjoy a great deal of alumni interest but they have few fans. The exceptions are Duke basketball (though everyone seems to hate them), Notre Dame and USC. Fans bring box office revenue, spirit (good and bad) and local interest, but not much more than that. I believe USC cares about its fans, but they are not going to sacrifice academics and the school’s reputation to make them (us) happy.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I don't disagree...
but this really isn’t about academics…Haden’s actions are more on a global level, what about those that give money to the program, is the school willing to potentially lose dollars due to the way PH is handling things?
---
I think some or over playing the revenue aspect of athletics to the university’s operation… as much as I love them. I agree with Loco that the big donations aren’t focus on sports prowess in their giving decisions.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 13, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Archie, that’s exactly it.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
glad you got even ---
with the typos. I also was not completely clear in my earlier response to your posting…. but I do get your train of thought.
I also on KO have mixed feelings…. but honestly the ‘good coach’ credentials in BB baffle me more than FB. I watch and enjoy the game but the strategies, etc do not resonant with me the way FB does.
by trojanarchitect on Mar 13, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Money is the mothers milk of academics and the Athletic department does not contribute a dime to the academic side of USC. The donations from Annenberg, Keck, Dornsife, Lucas, Tutor, Hsieh, Viterbi (we can go on and on) and the like have nothing to do with athletics. The Dornsife’s total contributions are now $221 Million, and their kids didn’t even go to USC. David Dorsnsife was quoted saying he was donating because to increase USC’s academic prestige and to “keep the momentum going.”
So I agree that poor on-field performance might hurt the athletic department, but it doesn’t affect the university. “Win the right way” means the previous way of doing business is not acceptable any more.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
let me put it another way...
is our athletic brand the same as or bigger than other schools in the conference?
This is not an “academic centric” blog its a sports blog. I understand the school pride thing and for those of you who were lucky enough to graduate from USC I can certainly understand your looking at the bigger picture… but our athletic brand is pretty significant and I don’t want our brand watered down like we are seeing with all this appeasement…
You make an excellent point Jim
All I’m doing is reconciling my expectations with what I am witnessing. For 40 years I have loved USC football and (sometimes) basketball, but “The Great Watering Down” is here; women’s lacrosse, sand volleyball… really. The NC’s will pile up like cord wood.
You can see what’s happening here. The long view is in 10 years USC will be a top 15 National University and have more NCAA Championships and Olympic athletes than any other school. It’s what they call “winning the right way.”
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I agree with both of you
FWIW. I hate seeing the de-prioritization on athletics too, but Loca is and has been right. It is well underway.
Can we really sustain our level of athletic success on this path? While Stanford has an impressive list of titles, they rarely compete in the big money sports. I guess Duke hoops is a good example. But, I suspect that USC may see a drop off in future athletics dominance.
However, it will be epic if we can be the first top 15 academic school (in the modern era) to win football natl champs.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Do Ivy League schools care about fans?
Sure, it just depends on the sport. For football, it’s “sort of” – the reason that Brown, for instance, still has football is that there are still older alumni willing to support it. In another 20 – 30 years, with the inevitable passage of time, I would expect to see the support waver.
They just get goofy over different sports.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Rowing, lacrosse, rugby and perhaps wrestling. Sports for larger white guys that cant take a hit :-P
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
close – rowing, lacrosse, and ice hockey.
Having played a little rugby in high school, let me assure you that just because you can’t use a helmet as a weapon doesn’t mean you don’t take a hit in rugby.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Hoops?
they seem to have pretty rabid fans and some very decent teams…Harvard, Princeton, Cornell….
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Fencing
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again
-R. Zimmerman
Squash for $200 Alex
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Are there really USC whales who are willing to sacrifice athletics for the academic mission of the university? Who are these people? That is NOT USC! I want both, not one or the other.
I think this is the difference between you and me (and I suspect a majority of Cal fans).
Yes, obviously the goal is to have both athletics and academics stand out as elite among peers. However, I have yet to meet a Cal alumnus who, if presented with the scenario, would hesitate for a nanosecond to rank academics ahead of athletics. It’s a no-brainer. As much pride as we have in our athletic history (and while I know that in modern times that glory isn’t very high, but there are very few schools with the athletic history of Berkeley), we would never trade any of our academic prestige for better athletic results.
I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.
by SoCal Oski on Mar 13, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The case of Alfred Mann is the ultimate irony.
If you guys think USC only beats the snot out of Ucla on the field, think again. Mann is a Ucla alum but his foundation donates heavily to USC. From Wikipedia:
“As an alumnus of UCLA, he tried to make a substantial monetary gift to his alma mater to fund a bioengineering institute. However, the donation failed over Mr. Mann’s desire to retain control over patents and patent revenues generated by the institute. The $162 million gift eventually went to USC, a private institution that agreed to his terms.5
On March 16, 2007 Purdue University received a $100 million endowment from the Mann Foundation for Biomedical Engineering. The endowment is the largest research gift ever at the university, and will create the Alfred Mann Institute at Purdue.6”
Who knew Ucla was so greedy, and stupid.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
Well, when you are dealing with a "Progressive" institution..........
they want their cake and they want to eat it too.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again
-R. Zimmerman
Tsk, tsk, tsk!
DF Dub! I go to Europe for a few days, knowing full well that KO made an ass of himself and our beloved USC, because of it- KO gets suspended for the remainder of the PAC 10 tournament by Unschaden Haden (pronounced: “shay-dun”, short for schadenfreude- you know?) . . . . .
. . . . . and later hear that we lose to the ‘Cats! And then, as if the Bracketology Gods themselves have generously bestowed their utter kindness and respect for USC sports and Unschaden Haden (you read that correctly: “kindness and respect for USC SPORTS”, goshdarnit!)- we get INVITED TO THE DANCE despite the fact that our basketball team couldn’t beat Bradley, Wazzu, and Oregon State in the regular season???? (yeah, THAT Oregon State team- there’s only one!)
You had to do it, eh DF Dud? Just had to?
God bless you MY MAN! I may not agree with you 100% all the time- this case being point of that fact, but HOT DAMN do I love the hell outta your spirit, chutzpah, and passion! NO ONE here on Conquest Chronicles can touch your ass in those departments. I am loathe to say that I disagree with your post, but I am proud to say I am so happy that you’re ONE OF US! Even if it’s too much of “one”, from time to time!
So KO’s suspension didn’t kill out chances of making it to The Tournament afterall. Yes, you might have been wrong about Pat Haden’s decision to suspend our scandalously awesome basketball coach? But in retrospect, . . . . .
. . . .what has transpired in the past week in USC sports is. . . . .
. . . .EXACTLY WHAT USC HAS NEEDED since last July 2010!
USC may not be the best university in the universe, but it MOST CERTAINLY IS to one and all Trojans alike!
Keep FIGHTING ON DFWTrojan!
(mad love and props to you Brojan! still digging your show, still way down with the manner in which you write and the positions in which you take! even in disagreements!)
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad")
LOL, you crack me up, bruh
hope you at least laughed once or twice at the image links! I must have spent a good hour trying to add funny links because I knew my emotional purge would be a tough read w/out some levity!
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Feeling much better no, BTW
We made the tourney. This story is now yesterday’s news, baby! Beat the Rams!
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
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