Making the Case for Barkley and the Heisman
I know we have touched on this before but things are heating up...
The easy pick for many pundits is Andrew Luck over Matt Barkley as the better NFL prospect.
That's fine. Many have pointed out that Luck has all the capabilities of being a success in the NFL.
We have been hearing all about Luck for the past 18 months, some would say that we nave heard too much...that with all the talk when coupled with a couple of of Luck's performances that there might be a backlash taking place.
Hard to know, but some are looking a little closer at both Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck.
Barkley had a better 2011 season. He should have been the first-team All-Pac-12 quarterback, and he’s more worthy of the Heisman Trophy.
The Heisman doesn’t go to the player with the most pro potential; it goes to the most outstanding college football player in a given season. Whether Barkley is a better candidate than Robert Griffin III or Trent Richardson is another subject for another time. What’s clear is that Barkley is a better candidate than Luck.
Let’s start with the numbers. Barkley passed for more touchdowns (39) than Luck (35) and threw fewer interceptions (seven to Luck’s nine). Barkley passed for more yards (3,528 to Luck’s 3,170). Their completion percentages were almost identical (Luck 70.0, Barkley 69.1).
Let’s dig even further. Barkley and Luck faced seven common opponents: Arizona, Cal, Colorado, Notre Dame, Oregon, UCLA and Washington. In those games, Luck completed 71.4 percent of his passes for 1,837 yards with 19 touchdowns and five interceptions. Barkley completed 71.0 percent for 2,125 yards with 26 TDs and three picks.
Numbers don't lie, but like the BCS everyone has an agenda.
Even Stanford coach David Shaw is trying to get the point across that Luck is best choice with video tape...
I know that it is Shaw's duty to pump his guy up but when you have to start pointing things out here and there using video like you;re trying to break down game tape, it seems a little too much like a used car salesman.
Kiffn on the other hand simply stated that Barkley was probably treated unfairly because of USC's probation.
Kiffin elaborated on the point...
"If Andrew Luck is favored to win it, there's no way you can't have Matt Barkley there because of what he's done," Kiffin said on "Max and Marcellus" on ESPN 710 in Los Angeles. "If you actually compare what they've done vs. the same teams, Matt's actually outperformed Andrew. That's with a bunch of new kids and all these freshmen around him playing.
"We had two Heisman-winning quarterbacks here before and, if you break down their seasons, Matt's season is actually better than both of them. It's pretty interesting."
Luck has had some nice performances.
But Barkley has some as well. Both had bad losses, though I think Stanford's loss to UO was worse than USC's loss to ASU. Luck didn't look well at all for all the hype while Barkley's loss was bad that performance as off the grid.
Barkley's Heisman moment was against Oregon...he cemented it against UCLA.
Lucks last two games against Cal and Notre Dame were not the explosive games that we have to expect.
Hard to know what exactly the voters are thinking, ( HP probably knows better than most). Will Barkley get a fair shake and a second look?
I think Barkley's chances are a long shot to win it, but he should be in NYC for the ceremony...his overall performance clearly backs that up!
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When Barkley leaves for the NFL who will take over for the Trojan offense next year?
Teams that don’t have any QB’s with any starting experience in FBS football don’t do to well. Next year will be a pretty tough year for the Trojans. I’m thinking 5-7 especially with another 15 scholarships taken away. I wish the Trojans the best though.
Welcome my son, Welcome to Machine. The Electric Eye is watching.
by Eyeofthebeholder on Nov 30, 2011 6:08 PM PST reply actions
But most QBs don't have receivers like Woods and Lee to work with.
Much of the rest of the team will be staying next year. They will help with the transition.
by TheViewFromFigueroa on Nov 30, 2011 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
Who is going to be starting next year for the Trojans.
The leading contender?
Welcome my son, Welcome to Machine. The Electric Eye is watching.
by Eyeofthebeholder on Nov 30, 2011 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
Three to choose from....
Jesse Scroggins, Cody Kessler & Max Wittek!! USC is in good shape at QB competition next year.
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
The Most Interesting Man In The World---->Mikhail Prokhorov!!!
by Kidd2Petrovic on Dec 1, 2011 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
People said the same thing in 2003 when Carson Palmer left
Then Matt Leinart beat Auburn 30-0 and went on to an AP national championship. There is a lot more to this team than Barkley. With receivers and an offensive line like that in addition to that great young defense, 5-7 i a ludicrous prediction.
Stats and the Heisman
If you rely only on stats to make a case for the Heisman, you will lose. Stats are misleading and, unless they point to something truly special, they can be easily shot down.
For instance, let me quite easily shoot down the Luck vs. Barkly comparison that you cited:
1. Yes, Barkley does have more TD passes. But he’s also thrown the ball 73 more times than Luck. That’s the equivalent of about two more games worth of throws for Barkley than the Stanford QB. If they both threw the ball 443 times, the numbers show that Luck would have 42 TD passes to Barkley’s 39. This is why Luck’s efficiency rating is higher.
2. Getting further into the slippery slope of stats and comparison, Barkley has thrown the ball 99 more times than RG3 and has 150 fewer yards and only 5 more TD passes.
3. Luck’s team beat Barkley’s head to head and he has a better career record as a starter.
4. Barkley threw 21 of his 39 TD passes against Syracuse, Arizona, Colorado and UCLA. Those teams are ranked 73rd, 90th, 120th and 101st in passing touchdowns allowed, respectively. Yes, Barkley first broke the school record by throwing 6 TD passes against a team that not only leads the nation in TD passes allowed, but has allowed more TD passes (34) than any BCS team in at least the last 5 years. The point is, Barkley piled up most of his numbers against the weak part of his schedule.
I’m only pointing out these stats to illustrate how weak most statistical comparisons are. The prime reason Barkley has bigger numbers in some cases (not all) is that he has thrown far more passes and, in other cases, has been given as many chances as possible to pile up (sometimes meaningless) stats. He threw the ball 15 more times against UCLA alone (in a game that was never in doubt).
There are plenty of better ways to make a case for a candidates. Stats are useful, but finding the right angle and creating the right narrative (and doing it earlier in the season) is imperative.
Here’s what I put together for Matt Leinart in 2004. We had no money to do it and our technology was rudimentary, but it told a convincing story and put his numbers into context. This is what Stanford is doing so well in this last week.
http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/leinart-heisman.html
I never saw that
but that was pretty awesome. Well done HP.
Fight On! Beat everybody but us!
It's time to rock the fan vote, guys
Go to the ESPN page here to vote for Matt for Heisman – you can vote once a day, so vote early and vote often!
I dunno...
“Barkley’s Heisman moment was against Oregon…he cemented it against UCLA”
Far be it from me to know just how this Heisman thing works…. BUT the view from this couch is this… too many scoreless fourth quarters nor did Barkley lead his team from behind to win this season or last… especially late. My recollection is that he’s done this only once… way back in his second start at Ohio State. The game in Oregon was a gem by Barkley for three quarters then came… you guessed it… the fourth quarter. Trojans have lost leads and the game this way before but got away it in of all places… Autzen Stadium. Still, the happy ending up north came down to Oregon’s kicker (or lack of one) rather than Barkley. The UCLA game… quite a whuppin and Barkley took no prisoners… mostly because they were pretty much expired already. Quite frankly, while Barkley had a spectacular season… stats… 10-2 record… OB for the real winner of the PAC-12 South… plus I just saw something about POY in the PAC-12… I still remain doubtful about his Heisman chances. Simply because… his greatest accomplishments, in my mind, lie ahead of him… maybe next year with a suprise return to USC or most likely as a pro.
trojanWar
Even if he doesn't win...
He should still be considered. I’m sure as hell voting for him. And if there’s a Matt Barkley 4.0… he WILL win the Heisman.
I don't think Barkley has a chance of winning at all
He may deserve it, but let’s face it, he appeared on the national Heisman radar too late in the season to outgain Luck. He will be lucky to get 10% of the vote. He absolutely deserves an invitation to the ceremony as a finalist, but I seriously doubt that enough people will get some tape on him, and really give him an honest look to turn the tide. It will be Luck or Richardson in the end, and Luck and Barkley just might split the vote with the west coast voters.
Next year, he will be the front runner, but this year, its all about Luck.
It's primarily a popularity contest
And, USC was an outcast for most of the season.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT

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