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Thoughts on USC's return of Reggie Bush's Heisman

This is is tough decision for many to endure but I think this is the right move by President-Elect Nikias.

There will be those like me that will applaud and support this there will be others that will vehemently disagree.

There are some asking how do you reconcile the removing Bush's trophy and not O.J. Simpson's? Others want to bring up Charles Woodson who also admitted to taking improper benefits while at the University of Michigan yet has retained his Heisman to this day.

It isn't that simple...and there is no comparison.

Lets get Woodson out of the way first. The Heisman Trust has never even considered removing Woodson's Heisman even though Woodson's own words show he was guilty. I have been guilty of pointing fingers at Woodson as well but it really shouldn't matter what goes on with Michigan...we will of course take note, but Woodson's situation is insignificant. Last time I checked we are Trojan fans not Michigan fans. That stain is their cross to bear not ours.

Simpson's trophy is a little more tricky for some. But it really shouldn't be...

Star-divide

Simpson's despicable actions in his taking of two human lives came some 30 years after he left USC. Some 30 years after he played at the Coliseum. Those horrific crimes had absolutely no bearing on his athletic accomplishments at USC.

If USC chose to remove O.J.'s Heisman I would have understood and supported it. After all, the school is the caretaker of its own reputation, they have the ultimate say. The school didn't think it mattered or was relevant and so they let the award stand.

Reggie's actions on the other hand directly affected the school and happened while he was enrolled.

The only standards of personal conduct off the field that matter when voting on the Heisman award have to do with eligibility...clearly Reggie's actions off the field with he and his family taking money voided his eligibility and so he should probably lose the award but that is ultimately that is up to the Heisman Trust.

USC looks at at it differently..and with much more of a purpose.

President-Elect Nikias is pro-athletics in a major way. He understands USC's academic reputation as well as USC's athletic reputation. He knows that athletics is a way to work the big donors. It is also a sense of school pride.

So Nikias takes Bush's actions as a personal affront.

There are many of us who stood by Reggie throughout this ordeal. We wanted to believe that Reggie and his family were the victims of extortion or that Reggie was a victim of his parents greed, torn between ratting them out or protecting his eligibility. 

Neither were true...

Reggie was as involved as his parents the minute he took the money for that car.

And when all the details came out...even though we know Lloyd Lake lied about a lot in his testimony to the NCAA we all know he didn't lie about everything. No one can deny the Bush clan took the money especially when you listen to the audio tapes obtained by Real Sports.

He was dirty, they were dirty.

And because of their being dirty, President-Nikias wants to remove any and all memory of Bush and Mayo. This whole situation is a stain on USC as a whole not just the athletic department. I support it...Reggie Bush should feel the same humiliation that those who openly supported him felt on June 10th.

I would not be surprised if this is also a part of the appeal that 'SC is gearing up for. You make any and all moves that you can to try and make your case. Symbolic or not there are many USC fans and alums that think this is a great thing...especially after all of us were left holding the bag for Reggie's greed.

It doesn't matter that he didn't settle earlier before the NCAA got their hooks into Lake...the intent was already there. He could not have cared less about USC, its fans and its alums. In return those who supported Bush should not care how this looks for him...and it is humiliating.

It is one thing for the for the school to be ordered to disassociate from Reggie Bush. It is a quite another for the school to take steps, no matter how symbolic, to publicly remove any and all presence of Reggie in light of the sanctions.

President-Elect Nikias means business. He wants to restore USC's greatness without any memories of the past.

That is a very tall order but it is clear that he is determined to do just that.

This is a very good start.

Comment 36 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Nikias is Self-serving

I worked for Max Nikias at USC Engineering for about 5 years. He is self-centered, self-serving and crushes people under him.

This is just a sign of things to come. Nikias is going not going to be a very good follow-up to Steve Sample.

by lonobird on Jul 20, 2010 6:02 PM PDT reply actions  

I've heard those sentiments as well

I understand where you’re coming from, but disagree entirely.

Follow me on twitter @Joey_Kaufman

by Joey Kaufman on Jul 20, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I on the other hand...

heard nothing but positive things about Nikias while I was at SC. He had a reputation for being a hardass, but that ought to be quite fitting right now academically and athletically.

I don’t see how anything Nikias did today could possibly be considered “self-centered” or “self-serving.”

Rodney Sermons is my #5

by Brad Otton Is My Homeboy on Jul 20, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely a hardass

But at this point, we need that.

Follow me on twitter @Joey_Kaufman

by Joey Kaufman on Jul 20, 2010 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whatever lonobird

Given your track record of defending reggie bush, blindly backing everything carroll has done, and breaking norm chow news, I’d take someone else word on Nikias

by anh_sc79 on Jul 21, 2010 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yikes!

Did anyone get the license plate of that truck that just ran over lonobird?

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 21, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

A proposal for Nikias and Haden.

Why don’t we complete the circle and return to wearing the old three stripes on our sleeves?

On topic, I’m pleased with the decision.

OJ is a bit of a different story. While he turned into a waste of a human being later on in life, at SC as a football player his accomplishments were stellar. That being said, I would prefer that we disassociate with him as well.

Moving away from Bush is utterly necessary. He made it completely clear that he was willing to throw USC under the bus and that money was what mattered most to him (and a rather puny sum of money compared to what he’d later make). As stupid as NCAA rules might be (we all know that college football is about money more than it is about being a student-athlete), they are still the rules, and adults realize that whether you like the rules or not, you often have no choice but to play by them. Because of his actions, a lot of kids won’t be able to get the kinds of opportunities he had. He has no place being honored in any way. The NCAA is a hypocritical joke, but standing up for Reggie is not the way to fight back.

I suppose I am just a jerk, though, as I think the only three jerseys we ought to have retired are #3, #12 and #33.

Rodney Sermons is my #5

by Brad Otton Is My Homeboy on Jul 20, 2010 6:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Disagree

1st: Mike and Matt earned the honor they deserve the recognition. 2nd: OJ committed those horrible acts long after he left USC. Don’t continue any relationship with him; however you shouldn’t remove an honor he earned 20 years before. Now Reggie; F$%K Reggie. Just my opinion. Take it for what it worth.

by WE ARE SC on Jul 20, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1 on the F$%K Reggie!

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 20, 2010 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

 #1 Judas Iscariot
 #2 Marcus Junius Brutus
 #3 Benedict Arnold
 #4 Jane Fonda
 #5 Reginald Alfred Bush II

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 20, 2010 7:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Actually

I respect Brutus. He really REALLY thought he was saving the republic. Would I turn on a friend, even my best friend to fullfill my oath to the Constitution? In a heartbeat…

by impaulv on Jul 20, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm, justifiable homicide, what is it was your brother?

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 21, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

To me this is the one way the school can punish Reggie for being selfish

while at USC. Seems no one can do anything to him, he got what he wanted and didn’t care about USC. That clearly wasn’t right, the school should now show it doesn’t care about him. OJ is different, he did those horrible things decades later. I don’t think the school should associate itself with him, but to pretend what he did at USC doesn’t exist is a slippery slope I wouldn’t want to head down.

by ev on Jul 20, 2010 7:08 PM PDT reply actions  

Reggie blows goats

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 20, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

USC had to do this...

As part of the sanctions they had to disassociate with OJ Mayo and Bush. The fact that they announced they were doing it in such a way is actually a really clever PR decision (finally!!!!) to spin it in their favor.

At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.

by TrojanCBB on Jul 20, 2010 11:17 PM PDT reply actions  

True, but El Nuevo Presidente wanted to make a much bigger statement

It would have been enough to quietly put that thing out of HH and put it in a dark and moldy storage closet somewhere. No no no, not good enough!
El Nuevo Presidende (who is muy muy macho!) did all of us proud, by very publicly telling he who shall not be named to go f*ck himself for betraying the Trojan Family. This is not mere disassociation, it is EXCOMMUNICATION!
¡Muchas Felicidades Señor Presidente Nikias!

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 21, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Woodson

I hate to nitpick an important and unequivocal statement in your post, but Charles Woodson never testified that he took money. In fact, he testified to the exact OPPOSITE in front of agrand jury:

COLUMBIA, S.C. _ Heisman Trophy winner Charles Woodson testified Thursday that he did not take money or anything else of value from a Columbia sports agent during his college career at the University of Michigan. Woodson, testifying in the trial of Columbia banker Andre Lewis, said he _ not Summit Management Group Ltd. _ paid for a trip to Myrtle Beach in the spring of 1997, before his Heisman-winning season.

See also:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-heisman061010

The University of Michigan and the NCAA never investigated because there was no evidence to base an investigation.

It is not the same as Reggie’s case.

Sorry if it doesn’t fit with your narrative, but rumors about Woodson are not the same.

by PeterKlima on Jul 21, 2010 8:44 AM PDT reply actions  

I highly recommend you get a life…

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 21, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I will get the article later...Not in a position to find a working link.

But the detroit free press had the story….amazing how many UM fans don’t know about this….

"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."

Conquest Chronicles

by Paragon SC on Jul 21, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here is the quote...link doesn't work...will work on it later...

Charles Woodson admitted before a federal grand jury in the grand larceny investigation of Marion Darnell Jones that he knowingly accepted cash, trips, clothing from an agent prior to the “National Championship” season. The ONLY reason that Michigan wasn’t stripped of its national championship by the NCAA was that the investigation was performed by the Federal Government and not the NCAA and that any disclosure was done after the statute of limitations expired.

The NCAA is a corrupt facade pretending to enforce rules when everyone knows they have little to any interest in doing so, unless it is something small and pedantic that doesn’t really require their involvement.

They knew there was ugliness at um for the fab five but officially found practically nothing despite two investigations. Just like many similar investigations, including clarett, the multiple investigations at the sooners, Kentucky.

Adrian Peterson was in a scandal at the same dealership which got caught with bomar a few years later. They employed a huge chunk of the team, yet almost nothing came of that. What so they crack down on? Texting.

Same with the shady stuff at bama, especially with Saban, from huge signing bonuses for julio Jones to blatant abuse of the oversigning advantages, they crack down on bama for selling textbooks.

"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."

Conquest Chronicles

by Paragon SC on Jul 21, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

C'mon.... you're better than that....

The link doesn’t work because its not real. You fell for a Buckeye Internet Rumor. Sorry.

A couple of clues though: 1. link doesn’t work, 2. newspapers don’t use ALL CAPS to make a point… at least not in article reports… (maybe opinion columns?), 3. a claim of an NCAA statute of limitations… do you really think one exsits? The Marion Darnell Jones issue came up in 2001 — 4 years after Woodson left. How long ago did the Bush issue happen? 5 years? No mention of a statute of limitations has even come up. C’mon, do you really believe there is a statute of limitations?

The accurate and published reports are that Woodson denied the allegations. The NCAA didn’t think the allegations were even enough to investigate.

Maybe that is why UofM fans don’t know about “his admissions” because they are internet rumor-mongering…..

by PeterKlima on Jul 21, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough...you may be right on his not admitting to a grand jury...

but he took illegal benefits…

You have to register to read this but it is simple to do…

Byline: Drew Sharp

DETROIT _ Michigan can’t bow to its institutional arrogance or paranoia this time. It can’t appease its loyalists by invoking the code of silence, nor can it cry that these latest charges are the fabricated fruit of a supposedly hostile media.

Charles Woodson left a paper trail.

Once again, Michigan finds itself under the NCAA microscope with evidence that Woodson probably compromised his eligibility for the 1997 football season. He has thrown into question the validity of his Heisman Trophy-winning efforts and the Wolverines’ share of the national championship.

Under the NCAA’s skewed vision of due process, the accused are guilty until proven innocent. So the onus is on Woodson to clear his name, and he will get a fair opportunity to dispute accusations he took clothes and a trip from an agent.

But if he did place himself and his teammates at risk by associating with a now-disbanded Columbia, S.C., sports management firm, then Michigan should forfeit the games directly affected by Woodson’s actions _ the season-opening victory over Colorado and the 1998 Rose Bowl triumph that earned the Wolverines the Associated Press national championship.

This ridiculous notion that you can’t punish a team for the actions of an individual is naive. The essence of collegiate competition is the team concept, and it’s understood that an individual’s errors come with a collective consequence.

It’s not clear whether Michigan plans on hiring an outside law firm to oversee its internal investigation. Calls Wednesday to athletic director Bill Martin were not returned.

NCAA rules are broken everywhere by everyone. But this argument isn’t about cheating, it’s about accountability.

It doesn’t matter what wasn’t known then, but what’s known now. There’s no statute of limitations on ethics and integrity, and if the accusations are verified without suitable punishment, then U-M no longer can assume moral authority. Its credibility as an athletic entity bound by a code of conduct will be seriously compromised.

What’s honorable about winning a piece of the national championship with your star player ineligible? If true, it forever taints the merits of a season that captivated the country, largely through the dazzling performance of a two-way star who proved that the Heisman shouldn’t exclude defensive players.

If the charges are true, there should be an asterisk with U-M’s name attached.

Understandably, the NCAA would prefer that this unseemly episode disappear. But isn’t the NCAA guilty of rushing to judgment by suggesting that Michigan probably need not worry about penalties before an investigation even begins? And doesn’t it appear to the skeptical eye that the NCAA is opening the door for this to be swept under the carpet, mostly to avoid the embarrassment of stripping a national title from one of its most notable schools?

Documents uncovered by Columbia’s newspaper, the State, suggested that Woodson and then-teammate David Bowens violated NCAA rules when they flew to South Carolina on Memorial Day weekend 1997 at Summit Management’s expense. They stayed at the Myrtle Beach Hilton Oceanfront Golf Resort. A May 29, 1997, letter from Summit co-founder James Brown thanked Woodson for visiting. And there’s also an invoice showing that Woodson later received $13,777.10 worth of suits, sport coats and a tuxedo from a Columbia clothier _ just days before the Heisman ceremony in December.

Everyone eagerly awaits Woodson’s side of the story, the ramifications of which could be costly.

The NCAA vacated Massachusetts’ 1996 Final Four appearance when it was learned a few years later that Marcus Camby had accepted gifts and services from an agent. It didn’t matter that the school pled ignorance of Camby’s involvement or that the player had long since left. UMass had to forfeit the games Camby played.

Penn State suspended running back Curtis Enis from the 1998 Citrus Bowl when it learned that he accepted a suit from an agent. The school’s action was twofold. If it didn’t discipline Enis, it could have exposed itself to future NCAA scrutiny. And it risked having to forfeit the bowl if the violation came to light, regardless of whether it had prior knowledge of the infraction.

Safety Marcus Ray, Woodson’s former roommate, was suspended for six games in 1998 when U-M and the NCAA learned of his dealings with a Cincinnati agent. Ray played in the first two games that season, but forfeiture wasn’t considered because the Wolverines lost those games.

U-M apologists think forfeiting games four years later would serve little purpose, but they’re more interested in excuses rather than answers. They would prefer to join the masses and concede that college athletics has a sordid underbelly, instead of sending a strong message to future stars that irresponsibility comes at a high price.

But if neither the NCAA nor its schools care about accountability, then how can they demand the same standard from their athletes?

X X X

© 2001, Detroit Free Press.

Here is part of another….

Michigan received copies of the documentation implicating Woodson _ a receipt for an airline ticket to South Carolina; a letter dated May 29, 1997, from Summit co-founder James Brown thanking Woodson for visiting over Memorial Day; and invoices from a clothier in Columbia, S.C., suggesting that Woodson received more than $13,000 worth of suits, sport coats and a tuxedo just days before the Heisman Trophy ceremony in December, 1997.

And, according to reports, a credit card number used by Summit is on the receipts.

Yet Michigan found no reason to further pursue, opting once again to erect a stone wall.

“The current climate of conduct involving those agents who cross the line makes it even more difficult for a head coach today,” Carr said. "I want to be able to protect the integrity of our program, and that means when we get information from the newspapers, we look into it to determine if there was any impropriety. We found no evidence of that.

“But you have to deal with the reality today that kids from certain financial backgrounds are going to be influenced. And all we can do as coaches is to show kids these examples and warn them of the dangers.”

But what lesson does silence teach? If you ignore it long enough, it’ll go away because nobody wants to talk about it?

If, indeed, the Woodson episode is over before it could even gain traction, its legacy is a continuation of the don’t-ask, don’t-tell mind-set that further corrupts college athletics. Such duplicity only erodes the credibility of those who blindly and steadfastly believe their institutions rise above the morass. But, in reality, they wallow in the mud like everyone else.

The bolded part in the first article sounds a lot like USC’s situation. So, if Woodson didn’t admit to it as you state (and I will go with what you say for now) then he is no different than Bush right? The paper trail is there…so should he be held to the same standard?

I will keep looking for this I know I saw it some where…but Woodson is dirty…just like Bush.

"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."

Conquest Chronicles

by Paragon SC on Jul 21, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay

My point was that there were no admissions by Woodson and that he refuted everything. (As an aside, I don’t think Bush every refuted anything under oath.)

In the end, the NCAA did not investigate the Woodson thing. I assume it was because there was not enough there to investigate. USC (in 2009) and Michigan (in 2001) were in similar positions, storied programs, recent national champions, star player wins heisman, etc…. I am not sure why one was investigated and the other not, but since any conspiracy theory looks crazy in light of their similarities, I will assume it was a lack of anything solid to go on….

BTW – you run a great college football blog.

by PeterKlima on Jul 22, 2010 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why return it, why not drop the thing from the highest building on campus with all the news people there.

So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.

by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 21, 2010 10:56 AM PDT reply actions  

I thought about stealing it

Probably wouldn’t be that hard, and if anyone in HH saw me they’d probably pretend they didn’t

this is my signature! there are many like it but this one is mine!

by RabbitSC on Jul 21, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes it would make a great marker to point to where the heads are.

So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.

by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 21, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

This doesn't bode well for recruiting

What the sanctions won’t do to destroy our program, this hard ass attitude WILL. Ready for a return to the dark days? (anyone remember the 90’s?). Part of the allure of USC is the care-free California vibe, the glamour, the pomp and tradition. If you think athletes want to come to a school where they’ll be chained to their desks, spending 10 hours a week in compliance meetings, and having lawyers looking over their shoulders 24/7 you’re kidding yourselves. USC will BE the road to the NFL – that is the NO FUN LEAGUE! The 4 and 5 star recruits will have their pick of top notch schools and I can’t think of anything less welcoming then this recent turn of events…

by Marsella McCarver on Jul 21, 2010 5:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Nice take, but hard asses like Saban and Meyer don’t seem to have a problem drawing top talent. The problem with Reggie was his selfishness and willingness to betray his team, his coaches and his school. Had he paid Lake back the paltry sum he owed him. None of this should have happened, but Reggie felt entitled to screw Lake out of his money.

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 21, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude

you should go catch a wave, cowabunga, peace out, you got any herb?

"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"

by gnossos on Jul 21, 2010 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I don't smoke.

But if you haven’t had your head up your bum for too long, you wouldn’t be surprised to know that many of our collegiate athletes do partake in the occasional bong – and I’m not talking about athletic surfers.

Anyway…
As for Saban & Meyer… I believe they are both currently being investigated by the NCAA for running loose ships, too. My point is that athletes aren’t going to want to go to a school that’s under a microscope when they have other options. Telling a recruit “we have the biggest, most pro-active compliance staff in the FBS” isn’t exactly music to the ears of a 17 year old. These kids have been coming to USC for the last 8 years because they know that they’re going to work hard, they’re going to win AND they’re going to have a lot of fun. It’s part of what has made SC so attractive to so many great players. My worry is that we’re going to have a hard time attracting the same caliber of players when we can’t really guarantee the wins until Lane has proven himself, and the fun has been taken away by the NCAA & the new administration. What’s left? “Come to USC, kid. You’ll get to work really hard.”

by Marsella McCarver on Jul 21, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well yeah. The NCAA blew enough holes in our hull that it will take a huge effort just to keep the ship afloat. If the 30 scholarship hit isn’t reversed we are going have at at least two sub .500 seasons. The consolation will be that we’ll still beat ucla.

Don’t blame the new administration, as this is all on the COI (Conclave Of Inquisitors) headed by the Foul Pee the Miami Mobster and his Domer henchwoman Bloody Missy Conboy. Sorry to say, but (and we all know this) the fun left town when we got rolled by the furd and then died when PC quit on us. The only thing that will bring us back is winning.

Just Win Baby!

Still LOCO after all these years

All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT

by M. AGRIPPA on Jul 21, 2010 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

don't disagree...

"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."

Conquest Chronicles

by Paragon SC on Jul 22, 2010 3:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not really worried USC will still play FB and other sports, plus still be the best in California.

Four and Five stars kids don’t win championships, it’s the team and coaches that pulls that off. The Drama king players are the ones that will not come to USC in the future and all will be well, like I said best FB on west coast oh but I guess you need championships. You have to realize that it isn’t your team but theirs and anything that happens is on them and theirs to own.

So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats

Oh and when in Alabama just run over those Crosses

by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 22, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeap!

"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."

Conquest Chronicles

by Paragon SC on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

and rec'd

"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."

Conquest Chronicles

by Paragon SC on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

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