If USC cheated, does that mean John Wooden did too? (Bilas, ESPiN)
Bumped...can you hear the screaming from across town yet! P
Excerpts and paraphrasing from "Jay Bilas Blog: NCAA Standards? Anyone know what those are?" Jay Bilas is a graduate of Duke Law School and practices law at Moore & Van Allen in Charlotte, N.C.
Excellent article from Jay calling out the NCAA and Paul Dee for their incompetence and hypocrisy.
In the wake of the NCAA's questionable decision and resulting punishment in the case of USC's football program.....the issue for all of us to consider right now is which programs and coaches we are willing to call cheaters, why, and by what standard. If we are willing to call USC a cheater based upon certain evidence, are we therefore required to call U¢LA a cheater?
Jay is a trained lawyer and has read all of the available documents. He, too, sounded incredulous that the NCAA could base their key evidence on the words of a convicted felon and former gang member who has served prison time and has never held a legitimate job - a witness with no credibility.
According to USC, the allegations made by the NCAA are weak and, on some issues, can be disproved. After reading the notice and response, it is hard to argue that point.......The idea that the word of a convicted felon, not subject to cross-examination and without corroboration, could convict USC offends any notion of fair play.
Jay goes on to note that Tim Floyd was cleared of allegations by the NCAA report. To date, there has been no apology or retraction from Yahoo Sports! for their libelous character defamation of Coach Floyd.
....using as a backdrop this lame standard of proof and such paucity of credible evidence and corroboration to find an institutional link and convict USC football, consider also that Tim Floyd was not found guilty of anything in the NCAA's findings regarding the allegations surrounding O.J. Mayo. Not a single thing. That means the evidence that the NCAA had against Floyd was so flimsy as to be nonexistent. After all of that hand-wringing, finger-waving and high-horse posturing, Floyd was basically declared innocent of the charges brought against him by the NCAA.
So, why can't 98% of Hater Nation see that USC has been railroaded by the media and the NCAA. Why do they insist on referring to Pete Carroll as a cheater? Jay illustrates the inanity of these accusations....
Despite the clear problems with the NCAA's standards and the case against the Trojans, many would say, Good riddance, USC; you got what you deserved. Despite the lack of credible evidence, many would consider USC's coaching staff to be guilty and complicit in any wrongdoing because the head coach and coaching staff are always responsible for everything that goes on in the program. Always.
Well, if that goes for Pete Carroll.....if you are among those that feel that way, you just called John Wooden a cheater.
The NCAA's new "moving the goal post" standards hereby deem every head coach whose program, even if only a single player, has had a run-in with the NCAA a cheater. But, seriously, should Wooden be described as a cheater too???
Several of Wooden's players on his championship teams have admitted taking extra benefits from Sam Gilbert, an established representative of UCLA's athletic interests during most of Wooden's championship years, and have admitted knowing that such actions were illegal. In addition, Wooden himself is on record saying that he suspected that Gilbert might have been doing illegal things, and that Wooden may have been guilty of "trusting too much." Can you imagine the reaction if Carroll.......put forth the defense that they were guilty only of "trusting too much"?
So, Pete Carroll and John Wooden shared similar experiences, but with different PR treatment?
.....if you accept the insubstantial evidence against USC football, it follows that you must also accept the mass of evidence against U¢LA basketball. And if you label USC a cheater based on the evidence presented, you would seem required also to label U¢LA a cheater. And by the standard that every head coach is responsible for what goes on in his program, you would also seem required to call John Wooden a cheater.
Jay is not willing to call John Wooden a cheater. He is merely using that example to highlight the absurdity of the NCAA's torpedo attack against the USC battle ship. As for the NCAA, Jay smells a rat:
Oh, and while we are discussing standards, does it strike anyone as peculiar that the chair of the Committee on Infractions that slammed USC is Paul Dee, the former athletic director at Miami? Dee was in charge of the Miami program when the Hurricanes' football team was hit with some of the most severe sanctions in NCAA history. Why is Dee, who presided over a cheating and scandalous program by NCAA standards, allowed to chair the Committee on Infractions, which sits in judgment of other programs? Please, tell me more about the NCAA's "standards".
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors.
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Oh yes he did!
Tick, tick, tick… BOOM!!!! At Uncle Festor’s
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Holy crap! Rec'd x 1,000,000!
The evidence of conspiracy keeps mounting!
PLEASE BUMP TO FRONT PAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Bilas also went to Rolling Hills High school...my crosstown rival
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
Great job with this!
Lovin’ the increase in fanposts recently. Great job guys!
Follow me on twitter @Joey_Kaufman
This is the most amazing part...
And it goes for John Calipari, despite the fact that Calipari has never been named in an NCAA finding of wrongdoing
How in the WORLD has Calipari not been named in anything when this stuff has happened at every school he has been at?!!
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
This week has been a bodacious box o' chocolates for me!
And I LIKE CHOCOLATE!
Joey hit it hard late last week, Paragon posted some poetry the next day, Agrippa went for an across the top with an armar (good move) then leveraged underneath for a frontside pass, got the thumb & twisted it out for a submission (those 2 posts knocked-me-the-fuck-out Professor! they did), Frak just killed it this past weekend (my face hurt from smiling, it still does), SoCal dropped LOGIK and said what needed to be said today, and then you! DFW!!!!!!!!! Always going for nothing but the WIN!
And you got it, Champ!
I am tickled as much as I am honored to have Trojan friends like you fellas.
I want to make a shirt for our CC-community. It will read: “Trojans used to be arrogant. Now? We’re just perfect” (on the front). “Conquest Chronicles dot com- just comment” (on the back)
Proud I am, boys! -Bix
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
Bet your ass he did little one, he was as dirty as they came. Reallity sucks don't it?
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
I know where you are coming from bruinfan
I realize that its hard to hear this stuff about Wooden, but the truth of the matter is that when you talk about the Wooden era at ucla, Sam Gilbert is always going to be mentioned.
It's not that at all
I just really hate equating most things.
Wooden isn’t Carroll
UCLA Basketball 40 years ago isn’t USC Football 10 years ago
The NCAA of the 70’s isn’t the NCAA of the 00’s
Sam Gilbert is not Lloyd Lake
And so forth and so on. People always like to compare when situations/events are best analyzed by themselves. Usually, the comparison skews perspective.
The discussion of Wooden and Gilbert…meh. But Wooden vs. Carroll? That just doesn’t fly.
You're missing the point of Bilas' article....
it is about standards…the NCAA moves the goal posts to suit their needs….what is so hard for you to understand that?
As for the comparisons WRT to Wooden, Carroll etc. people are entitled to their opinions on it. I think Bilas makes a strong case for Wooden burying his head in the sand…people are free to run with it from there.
Wooden is no more a cheater than Carroll is if the same standards are applied…or maybe he is.
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
Plus baylis didn't go to USC but he did go to UNC so maybe he doesn't believe in Phoney Pyramids of Success.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 2, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Bilas went to duke not UNC...
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
You're missing the point
The same standards cannot apply because the same standards DID NOT apply.
The mere fact that NCAA rules have changed over the past 40 years demonstrates that coaches are held to a different standards now, be it a higher standard or lower standard. What was expected of Coach 40 years ago? What was expected of Carroll the last 10 years?
Combine this with the fact that their situations are not factually the same, the comparison is not apt and the argument about standards is moot.
It’s all a way to knock down the greatest coach in American history to make Trojans feel better about their tarnished run. Like I said, whatever makes you feel better at night.
Typical revisionism
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
The rules they are getting at are the same, sorry but I actually competed in that era.
Plus if you plugged in Tark in woodens ucla shoes result would have been the same with a little more flair, kind of like the difference between english and american foods. JW was BORING
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 3, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry BF1
Those of us that were around during the Wooden era know that your hero was coated in Teflon. The rules were the same but Wooden skated while Tark got punished. Deal with it, we don’t want to tear down Wooden, but you can’t pretend Sam Gilbert’s “contributions” were not improper. Gilbert made Wooden dirty, but the NCAA looked the other way. By your standard cheating only matters if you get caught.
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Absolutely laughable....and sadly predictable
Why is it that every single Bruin that I have ever discussed this with has said the exact the same thing…" the standards were different then…"
I am pretty sure that over the past 50-75 years the NCAA has never said that players are allowed to receive extra benefits. You’re a lawyer, you are obviously comfortable in doing research…so why don’t go back and find the rules and/or bylaw that says extra benefits are OK.
Wooden’s own words admit that he knew something was going on but he would not say what specifically…smart move, give your detractors nothing, let them speculate and find it for themselves.
Wooden may not have actually “OK’d” it but he turned a blind eye. The standards of a coach monitoring his program were the same then as they are now. The only difference in standards between now and then is simple…we are in the era of the 24 hour news cycle, journalistic standards have changed…guys would sit on stories or ignore them back then…today there is a rush to get things out…to be the first. The best example is Cole and Robinson’s reporting on Floyd’s $1000 handshake.
I have my issues with Pete Carroll but he has been brutalized in the press and elsewhere over something he had nothing to do with other than not asking the right questions. His legacy is tarnished for daring to put football first over some joke of the arcane image of the “student athlete”.
Bruins fans will fall on their sword to protect the legacy of a man over a few banners that many think are tainted and a few quotes that Bruins fans will die over like aura of that clown from Chicago.
Wooden may not have actually seen it but how could a man with so much supposed wisdom and intellect no know what was going on even a little bit?
Sorry if it sounds harsh…but I have been more than accommodating to our guests here when it comes to dissenting opinions but to me your argument is intellectually dishonest.
Cheating is cheating is cheating as many on that other blog like to point out…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
by Paragon SC on Jul 3, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Here's Bill Walton talking about the standards back then
For all of those bruins that think taking gifts from Sam Gilbert was ok, and not against the rules, here is Bill Walton’s take on it:
UCLA players were so well taken care of — far beyond the ground rules of the NCAA — that even players from poor backgrounds never left UCLA prematurely (for pro basketball) during John Wooden’s championship years," Walton said. "If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national championships and be on probation for the next 100 years.
By the way, Bill Walton said his comments were misquoted, and taken out of context. I don’t know what kind of context that this quote can be taken in and not make ucla look dirty. Unless the author of “On the Road With the Portland Trailblazers” just made up all of these quotes from Walton.
You are right about one thing
there is no comparison between ucla basketball of the 60s and 70s, and USC football of the 2000s. ucla was much, much worse than anything that happened at USC.
Rec'd... Iconoclastic!
“…that clown from Chicago.”
Oh yes you did!
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Wooten HAD NO MORE INTELLECT AND WISDOM THEN THE NEXT Man, HE JUST COPIED FROM OTHERS AND MADE IT LOOK LIKE HIS DOINGS.
He was in the same company as Benedict Arnold, plus I felt he really was a strange person. Always had this wired look on his face like he was waiting for a hammer to fall, maybe they had something over him and he was Just a Puppet.
Hey they could just make hand operating Wooden Puppets of him and sell them to BN.
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 3, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither did Pete Carroll...
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
John Wooden
asked Lucius Allen if Gilbert gave him gifts. Apart from a comment that he didn’t like that fact, nothing came of the inquiry. I don’t think Wooden approved of Gilbert, but we will never know the extent of Wooden’s actions to combat the influence of Gilbert on his program. Wooden refused to answer questions from one reporter about Gilbert saying that he didn’t want to comment as long as he was at ucla.
If your standard is knowing about impropriety, and not reporting it, then what do you call Wooden. He definitely knew about it. Whether or not he reported it, its hard to say. He did say that his conscience was clear. I take that to mean he tried his best to stop it.
I really don’t know exactly how I feel about Wooden in regards to Gilbert. On one hand, I’m sure ucla would have done extremely well without the Gilbert influence. On the other hand, they did have a recruiting edge if recruits were aware that Papa Sam would take care of them. Which came first, the chicken or the egg, or the Gilbert or the Wooden. Did Gilbert make Wooden great by keeping a steady flow of talent to Pauley Pavilion, or could Wooden have won without that help.
Wooden won 3 championships before Gilbert is in the picture, so I’m inclined to think the later. Its hard to say Wooden cheated, even if you are biased like I am. I do think that the ucla teams from the Gilbert era are all cheaters. Anyone that took gifts is the same as Reggie Bush.
\
No, really- YOU'RE missing the point
(sorry, I just wanted to write that. i don’t truly mean it though. here’s why)
“The same standards cannot apply because the same standards DID NOT appy” (your words) And you would be 100% correct in making that statement, if you had only written “. . . .DO NOT apply”.
Semantics, shemantics!?!?!?
BruinFan1, has it dawned on you that what you’ve written is EXACTLY the pertinent point of the Bilas article. He’s saying that Coach Wooden was held to a “different standard” than his peers during his coaching career and as such, his reputation and impact as a coach will be forever looked upon positively. In turn, Coach Pete Carroll has also been held to a “different standard” than his peers (no direct involvement in providing extra benefits to his players, no allegations or investigations involving recruiting- despite consistently reeling in Top 5 recruiting classes throughout his college coaching career- yet big-name coaches with colorful histories involving player-conduct, recruiting, academic-assistance/textbook fraud, & player-entitlement remain unpunished or uninvestigated) and as such, has a perception of running a loose-ship program and has been deemed to be the facilitator of providing a “pay-for-play” system of “professional” players.
What’s so outrageous about this perception is that- PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT OF HIM BEFORE these recent NCAA sanctions. The judgment by the NCAA only seems to “verify” and lend credence to those absurd assumptions.
Same standards did not apply? You bet your Bruin-blue ass they did not apply. The standards are different??? DUH! What the fuck do you think we’re friggin’ talkin’ about here?
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Jul 3, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Garrett...
…was a dumbass for making his “they’re all jealous” comment in a public place so soon after the findings came out.
But he was right.
Rodney Sermons is my #5
by Brad Otton Is My Homeboy on Jul 1, 2010 8:26 PM PDT reply actions
Some are (you know who I'm talking about)
But lemme explain something that isn’t Earth shattering…
Whether real or merely perceived, USC has a perception of being bratty entitled assholes. When your A.D. makes a comment like that, he only reinforces that perception.
You’re better off without him. He has absolutely no sense to him and probably screwed you over somewhat on the appeal.
Garbage...and I'm not surprised you would pull this card...just like clockwork
I must have missed this when you first posted it…
You really are butt hurt for some reason. That’s the second thing Bruins fans like to point out…that USC fans/alums are arrogant or "spoiled’ as they like to point out when disparaging us.
The Garrett quotes are untimely to be sure but make no mistake Garrett is a Trojan! His quotes are no different than that clown of a football coach you guys have who has yet to back any of his comments up. At least Garrett doesn’t beg for the fans to be patient and to come back next week promising to be better…he has a lot more class than that.
Garrett should be on his way out the door for his lack of oversight WRT Bush and Mayo but he has also been responsible for making the hires of coaches that have brought ’SC numerous NCAA National Championships…3 this year to be exact…more than any other program.
And it not just this year either…
In the long run we may be better off without him because of Bush/Mayo but he bleeds C&G. He may be a bastard but he is our bastard and even with his missteps I will stand his record up against ANYONE in that shit hole known as the Morgan Center.
Finally, it is clear to me that our criticism of Wooden here has touched a nerve with you. It shows in your comments. Now might be the time for you to kiss and make up with you-know-who on BN so you can have regular place to post this type of propaganda that is regularly posted on BN…it would be a perfect fit.
As I noted in the comment above I have been more than accommodating to dissenting opinion from non USC fans but this is a very partisan Trojan blog. I really don’t have to accept any outside opinions or guests. You are wearing out your welcome here on CC with your comments as they antagonize my members and I won’t have it.
The choice is yours…if it doesn’t work out on BN maybe you can go hang out with those dicks over at BRO run by that clown Pierson…
Must suck to be a man without a country…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
by Paragon SC on Jul 5, 2010 3:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about right now.
because I never said that I held that perception. I said it exists. You know it does. I know it does. I simply stated that Garrett didn’t help out. You know he didn’t. I know he didn’t.
I didn’t even write that with an ounce of anger or with a smirk thinking “that’ll show ’em.”
Really don’t know what I did here.
This whole comment is absurd
Anger without reason or cause. In retrospect, I did absolutely nothing. I even reread my comment and I qualified it. I was quite polite. Seems I hit a nerve with you.
“Finally, it is clear to me that our criticism of Wooden here has touched a nerve with you. It shows in your comments.”
Uh, it’s a whole post alluding that Wooden is a cheater. And I’m supposed to have a parade? I read and I commented. Not only do I think you’re wrong, I know you’re wrong. Sorry you don’t like that, but I ain’t gonna quit protecting Wooden so long as I can post here (if the allegation is absurd, as it is here…that is, comparing Wooden to Carrol).
You’re being angry with me without cause. I stated a fact without being mean spirited or putting “Bruin spin” or anything like that.
Man without a country? Whatever insult makes you feel better. Don’t think I deserved that, but whatever. If I get bumped off, I rather go off defending myself from someone that’s being an asshole to me without cause or reason.
You are free to go anytime you like...
Like I said I have been more than accommodating.
Feel free to defend Wooden elsewhere…just not here, it only antagonizes my members who feel the same way I do and I am not interested in trying to referee it.
Your move…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
You know you could have just said that to begin with
That it creates a frenzy that you don’t want to deal with. I can appreciate that and I would have listened to that. Look, its your blog and I was just trying to participate without being inflamatory. I don’t think I’ve ever posted something that is purposefully spiteful or hateful, etc.
It probably won’t be the last time this happens (just naturally since I’m from UCLA). All you gotta do is give me a nudge (without the insults).
He's allright, for a Bruin
Of course he’s helped because he’s got a BETTER HALF!
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
I got to thinking
I started posting here after what was called at the time, to paraphrase, refreshing class for an internet poster. I was wrong, admitted it and developed a nice cordial relationship with the people here. Heck, even last December I was asked to write something up about our rivalry before the game.
There’s the thing. I’ve actually done something substantial for CC. You may not know or care, but I put some thought into that work. Why? Because I respect CC. I have written some things that were thoughtful and (as I hoped) made this community better because I like it. I’m not a Bruin who subscribes to the notion that all Trojans are aweful. That’s dumb. I’ve met some really great ones.
That being said, what you wrote above Paragon was uncalled for. I’m not some random poster. I’ve actually contributed work and put thought behind it. It’s not what you wrote, its that I can see you were purposefully trying to be as nasty as you could. I don’t care if this is the internet, it wasn’t right.
I absolutely 100% deserve an apology as I did not deserve the comments. If you think I did, then you clearly don’t care about the thoughtful contributions I have made when asked personally via e-mail. That’s fine. I just need to know before I really put some thought behind another post in the future if I’m asked for one. I rather be “a man without a country” than to be asked to contribute again when the head guy thinks I’m a Bruin piece of shit.
If this is my last post here – DFW, you’re a pretty cool dude. So.Cal, you’re one crazy mutha and I dig that. Bix, you crack me up. Joey, your writing is phenomenal and I’m deeply impressed. I will still speak highly of CC. It is a great community.
Relax...
You pushed that big red button a little too hard. Your comment about Garrett was inappropriate in this forum. Even if you didn’t mean anything by it. it was a foregone conclusion that those of us that saw MG win USC’s first Heisman and understand what it still means were bound to take offense. Since you are so willing to overlook John Wooden’s shortcomings you should understand what I mean. You have your heroes and we have ours. What they have in common is that they are men, and by definition they are flawed.
Your bruin friends are in full celebration because of the NCAA’s torching of Pete Carroll’s legacy. This was not the time for you to mouth off about Garrett and Carroll, even in defense of Wooden. Your demand for an apology seems overly emotional, and if I know Paragon, you shouldn’t sit around waiting for one to come.
Now, whether you want to admit it or not you’re part of the Trojan Family and you have good reason to be here. You represent the vast majority of Bruins, some of them our best friends. Sure, we have fun with our rivalry but we recognize the greatness of USC and UCLA and the contributions each school has made to Los Angeles and the world. Let’s leave the hatred to Nestor and his cadre of loons.
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
"Let’s leave the hatred to Nestor and his cadre of loons."
That would be lovely.
Time to Exit Stage Left
I think I did overstay my welcome here. When el jefe attacks you personally, you probably just need to take the clue and take off.
From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all luck in your endeavors and wish CC nothing but success!
I would normally let this go but it is clear you don't get it...
when the head guy thinks I’m a Bruin piece of shit.
I don’t feel this way all…I simply think you have different standards when it comes to comparing our guys to yours…
you clearly don’t care about the thoughtful contributions I have made when asked personally via e-mail.
What email? When? nothing from you in a while so resend it and we will go from there.
I absolutely 100% deserve an apology as I did not deserve the comments.
Not happening… we have our issues with both Carroll and Garrett but overall we support the total body of work. You cheap shotted Garrett and continue to think that Pete Carroll cheated when many would say that Wooden is guilty of the same thing. I have no problem if you want to bad mouth anything USC on another board/blog as I have no control outside of CC but I won’t let you do it here…not under the current environment and not if I see it as a double standard…
Notice that DJ and Paul V have been mostly absent during this time? They get it. Especially DJ where I at least have personal relationship and a lot more invested. He feels the same way you do we have disagreed about this over the phone and in person but he doesn’t stir shit up like you did.
If your opinion has changed of me or CC then that is on you…it is your bag of bricks to carry. I will defend any of my members regardless of school affiliation but I will not have two standards…and just because you have “been here for a while” doesn’t give you any extra credit.
Like I said you are free to what you like…stay, go whatever. if you have something to offer up then fine but I will not let it stand if want to continue to support Wooden while bashing our guys when it would appear that they really are guilty of the same thing….failing to ask the right questions.
I am pretty much done with this and really have nothing more to add…and to me I have added too much in responding already.
Your move…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
My experience
Yes there are arrogant bratty asshats that are USC alums. I don’t consider myself in that crowd. The companion of the bratty USC fan, is the asshat ucla fan. This fan will interrupt your conversation when you are out at dinner with some snide comment about spoiled children or South Carolina, and then want to talk about sanctions. I am usually polite and ask if they went to South Carolina. They will then reveal themselves as a bruin alum. I try to be a good sport, and be as polite as I can, but the guy persists, talking about the glorious win of the ucla football team in the Eagle Bank bowl. I politely chat with him and ask him what an Eagle Bank bowl is, since I’ve never heard of Eagle Bank. The conversation goes on for another 3 minutes. Really all I want is for it to end so he can take my order and bring us our beverages.
Here are a few things that I have noticed about ucla fans:
1. They talk about teams that beat USC, and use those wins as a way to raz USC fans. I can’t imagine just how anyone would have to sink as low as bringing up a loss that they weren’t responsible for delivering. Its really quite amusing, yet sad.
2. If for some amazing stroke of luck ucla wins a football game, you will never hear them stop talking about the time that they beat USC. This is more understandable since its actually victory earned by the bruins, but if my team just broke an 8 game losing streak, I would feel more relieved that the streak was over, than compelled to trash-talk.
3. bruins are bitter. Trojans can be jerks, but bruins are just plain bitter about how USC has manhandled them for much of the last decade.
4. This one is the biggest WTF for me. bruins trash-talk when they lose. They can lose by 50 points, and have their RBs in the locker-room crying on the coaches shoulder after the game, and they will still trash talk.
I know this doesn’t apply to all bruins, but in the event that you run into a stereo-typical USC arrogant douchebag, just remember that we have to put up with the stereo-typical “little brother syndrome”, bitter bruin hacks.
This all very true have encountered it as early as 2 weeks back, it was a ex-ucla womens VB player.
She just wanted to harass me about sanctions and players dropping out on commits, but I said it doesn’t really matter to me and she didn’t understand. Sadly enough is that she has kids and they will grow-up as her, what a waste of perfectly good human beings.
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 8, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem with you clowns is that you always whip out the "arrogant" card when you're beaten.
“Whether real or merely perceived,” ucla has a perception of being bratty whiny pussies.
Remember these famous words from your very own Kris Johnson referring to Sanford basketball:
“Stanford has this aura about their team and about their fans, and you always want to beat them.”Uh oh, did he say that? “Everyone says we have this thing.” Of course, that’s basketball arrogance so it doesn’t count; your academic arrogance shouldn’t count either since your rankings keep dropping across the board.
“It’s kind of an arrogant cockiness that they have.”
“Everyone says we have this thing, but I think Stanford has it more. The fans, and sometimes players just the way they walk into the gym. They have this thing about them that just irks me and irks our team really. We hate losing to them more than we hate losing to anybody.”
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Yeah, no Bruin EVER said an arrogant thing...
Reggie Carter
Maurice Jone-Drew
Reggie Miller
Just off the top of my head…
Yeah those guys never opened their mouth…right.
Arrogant Bruins…please tell me what these guys have won, I don’t seem to remember.
Garrett IS a winner even if he is a bone head in his comments…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
Come on Briunfan1 do you really think that because it says USC you would stereotype all?
Every where you turn in life you will have your arrogant and “spoiled” people, YES EVEN AT UCLA. Wake up dude smell the Roses I know you love your hero but really how can one make a perfect stranger a hero, personally I stick to family and friends. But good luck in your hated endeavors and your life.
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 5, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Whoa whoa whoa
I never once said I held that perception. Chill out.
YES you got it right JOHN Wooden= SLIM SHADY
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 1, 2010 11:51 PM PDT reply actions
So what is Woodie saying in that picture during timeout?
Don’t worry about the clothes and the car, Sam will take care of the Ncaa and the refs.
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 2, 2010 7:35 AM PDT reply actions
Or maybe OK guys Sam paid the refs off at the half and he says please dress up at his party at his house after the game.
Oh and BTW if anyone tries to pick-up on my girlfriend again you will not start or play in the next game, I am getting sick and tired of that stuff. Also please stay out of my Black Label Scotch, stick to your Hi-Life and Grass.
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 5, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Ha ha, I think if wag grass and Löwenbräu back then
Here’s to Sam’s friends,
The perks are kind of special.
The beer we’ll pour
Cash and grass and something more
So tonight (tonight),
Tonight,
Let it be Löwenbräu (let it be Löwenbräu).
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Dolan, you're a genius!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oUBaCyXWNk&feature=related
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
It was pompous yet underwhelming swill with a pretty baby blue label, big promise but mediocre result. Pretty much sums up bRuin football. One is extinct, the other is a state of mind.
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Correctemundo
For me it’s Steak and Cabernet Sauvignon or a nice Bordeaux!
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
One of these days amigo.
Silver Oak Napa Valley, perfecto! However, I’m just as happy with the Alexaner Valley while spending $30 less. Nothing is better with rib-eye.
The 2006 Alex release date is August 7.
So G-man, what’s your favorite steakhouse?
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
I like Ruth’s Chris (they have a great Seafood Gumbo!) and Morton’s for big chains, back east, Smith & Wollensky and I’ve always wanted to go to Peter Luger’s in Brooklyn, NY.
Another place in LA, although I haven’t been there in years is Dan Tana’s which has a killer New York.
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Better places out there...
I’ve always wanted to go to Peter Luger’s in Brooklyn, NY
Not as good as it used to be…and it is cash only. There are better on Long Island…Burton & Doyel, Rothman’s and Bryant & Cooper.
You guys have to step out past the national chains…check out some of the smaller places Craft Steak at the MGM, Gibsons in Chicago, Capital Grill is still pretty good as is the Prime Rib in DC and Philly.
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
C'mon Para, this is not wasteland!
L.A. is ruled by Mastro’s but it’s way too expensive and caviar? Extreme pretentiousness. I’ve not been to CUT yet and have no plan$ to go because Wolfie is just trying to outdo Mastro’s. Meh.
I prefer BOA on Ocean Avenue especially the patio on a warm night; their Caesar Salad is pretty close to the Tijuana original. The joint tries to hard to be cool but not as bad as the aforementioned two.
For an honest prime steak and great service 24/7 the Pacific Dining Car on Wilshire fills the bill. It’s an LA institution! The original Downtown location is crammed with Trojans after football games. They might as well bring in the Spirit of Troy to entertain the masses.
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
I remember going Tijuana as a kid and watching them make the Caesar salad right at the table
and I like caviar!
I have been lucky in being able to have taken customers out for some great dinners on the company dime…sadly the rules are different now. But man those were some great times…
There isn’t anything I won’t try atleast once when it comes to food…
tell you what… anyone comes to NYC dinner is on me…I come to LA dinner is on you
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
YOU'RE ON BOSS!
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
You can't go wrong with PDC
another “good” place is Taylor’s Steak house on 8th St. in Koreatown, also a SC hangout.
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Crap!
Forgot about Taylor’s, very old school, it’s as USC as El Cholo! Took forever to get a table because we were 30 min. late (pre-cellphone) but the waitress was great and NY steak was great. Haven’t been there in more than 15 years.
Perhaps it’s time for a return visit. I say we get one of their private rooms for a CC pow wow. Maybe after the Virginia game.
See Para, we’re not just about sushi and funny pizzas out here!
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Just checked, game time for Virginia is not till 7:30. The UDub game starts at 5:00
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Thanks DFW
I haven’t been called cool in awhile
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Gnossos
That’s a damn shame, because personally- I think you’ve single-handedly livened this place up with your “Lyric-sense” and “American-culture” take on things. Most of which have been way spot-on! (besides, I’ve now got 3 new CD’s of classic Jefferson Airplane thanks to you and your words).
“The Money-Whipped Steer-Job Three-Jack Give-Up Artist” and “Limo” (with Edwin Shrake) are books I’ve loved by Dan Jenkins. I owe the pleasure of having read them and many thanks- to you.
You’re fucking WAY MAJORLY COOL, my man.
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Jul 6, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Won't You Try Saturday Afternoon?"
Thank you for the kind words, I was half joking when I posted that, my son’s think I’m “cool.” I love CC and the guys who visit here, so much that I have cut my visits to Wolf’’s Cesspool by 98% and since the sanctions I RARELY read the comments. I look forward to the coming season with all of you!
P.S. Check out "Baja Oklahoma
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
This is our home now
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Home Sweet Home
of the Cardinal and Gold
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
What an insane title!
Dan Jenkins = One Witty & Sarcastic M-Fer!
“Baja Oklahoma” sounds epic!
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Jul 6, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Sounds good!
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Check out
Ridge Vineyards Monte Bello, a great Meritage, from Santa Cruz
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Tried it!
Great stuff but I’m not sophisticated enough to really understand blends. My wine snob brother bags on me for the S.O., a bit too oaky for him but I value reliability above all else. I also like Caymus for about the same price, fuller and spicier, but it’s released earlier so can get messed up by improper storage. Another (cheaper) option I like is St. Clement Cabernet, pretty good in the low $30’s for the 2005.
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
I love Caymus
also Jordan and Montelena
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Money well spent!
Still LOCO after all these years
All hail Augustus Kiffin!
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Hah I got a 1994 Remick Ridge Cab Smothers Brothers Winery Bought in 1999.
I will drink it someday Plus you guys forgot about Steak and Stein in Whittier, table service largest Bakes you will ever see or the Northwoods for there red cabbage salad.
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 5, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
God, that's a blast from the past
I used to carry their Chardonnay in the ’80s and it was very good.
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Dick used to come in at my Trader Joes in LV along with Jimmy Walker (dried apricots) and Elly Mae along with Summers Moms (Bay Watch)
So Fight On USC followers and Don’t worry WE Will Still Play on Saturdays and Bowls will come later, for WE ARE SC not That other Softball University. Oh and don’t say you now have a baseball team, it’s not Real Baseball unless you use Wooden Bats.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 6, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions

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