The cost of Taylor Mays' senior year
by Paragon SC on Apr 23, 2010 8:55 AM PDT
in Commentary
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PrintThere has been a lot of chatter on the boards about Taylor Mays not being picked by Pete Carroll let alone being picked at all in the first round of last nights opening act of the 2010 NFL Draft.
For the first time in few years a player from USC was not selected in the first round.
As I noted yesterday that really is not a surprise with the amount of USC players taken the past few drafts, sooner or later SC was bound to have a slow year. I don't have a problem with that. It happens...
The more intriguing question is did Taylor Mays do himself any favors by staying for his senior year. Mays was a guaranteed first round pick last year and many thought he would be a top 10 or top 15 player selected. Hard to know but IIRC there were not any safeties taken in the first round of last years draft.
Mays stayed for a number of reasons.
Aside from Pete Carroll urging him to stay in school like he does 99% of his players, Mays liked college life, he enjoyed the company of a certain someone special and his parents wanted him to graduate. Mays was not in a position of financial need. His parents are well off with very successful careers of their own so their urging of Mays to graduate was more important than leaving early for NFL riches.
Mays will make plenty of money in the NFL and if he gets the proper coaching he will should have a long and successful career.
But there is still a little something nagging me about this. Maybe its nothing but it is enough for me to bring it up.
Let me flip this around.
Lets put aside the reasons I mentioned as to why Mays stayed. Lets look at this from a pure football perspective. Pete Carroll has always urged his players except for Bush to finish their eligibility. The reasoning being that the more experience you get at the college level the better your chances for success in the NFL. It is not a perfect formula but it is also not without merit. It also depends on your definition of success...
So, when Pete Carroll had the opportunity to draft Mays in the first round he instead chose Earl Thomas, a safety from Texas, that was a redshirt sophomore. Thomas is a player that can play both safety and the cornerback spot but a player none the less who didn't maximize his eligibility by leaving early. Based on production Thomas is a better safety than Mays but Mays was asked to much more than Thomas in shepherding a less experienced secondary than what USC had in 2008.
Needless to say many raised an eyebrow at that development.
For the sake of discussion I am going to take a contrarian point of view here that will not be popular.
As a coach that specializes in the secondary what does it say that Mays didn't develop better under Pete Carroll's tutelage in order to be that first round pick for the Seahawks last night? Mays has been quoted as saying that he played exactly how he was told to play. He was told to make big hits, he was told to play far off the ball in order to not give up the big play yet as I mentioned yesterday Mays playing center field did not prevent Golden Tate from the making a big play against USC last season and there were times when Mays woefully out of position and when he was in position his tackling technique was at times suspect.
I am not breaking any new ground here...we all saw the games.
There is no question that Taylor Mays is a freak of nature, he has some special gifts. But it is also fair to ask how he was developed. Did Pete Carroll maximize Mays' gifts so that it would not only benefit the team but also benefit Mays going forward? Some of this could be on Mays too...did he listen to Pete? I don't know, I am just throwing it out there.
There are some who say that it is not the colleges coaches job to prepare the player for the NFL. That's true, but Pete Carroll built his era at USC specifically using that rationale. We saw how Pete Carroll lost his cool over Mark Sanchez leaving early...a move that proved to be the right move, yet he got his way with Mays and in some peoples eyes he didn't finish the job. I will admit that some of it was out of PC's hands. When Shareece Wright decided to to take a pass on going to class leaving him academically ineligible, it forced Carroll to move Mays to Free Safety but even with that move could Mays have been developed better?
That might also show the value of former DC and DB coach Rocky Seto...wasn't that his unit?
I find it a bit hypocritical that PC urges his players to stay all 4 years and then picks a player who didn't. Said player might be better but when one of the players available is your guy, who you recruited and were supposed to develop I makes me scratch my head.
I get it..the NFL is a business. You can't let your heart strings get pulled but if Carroll developed Mays better this might have been a no brainer.
In the end everything happens for a reason...It is probably a good thing for Mays. I would not be surprised if this got his competitive juices flowing. It would probably be a good thing for Mays to get coached up by someone different, someone who can maximize his special gifts and make some GM else where kick themselves for taking him in the first round.
I obviously don't know the answers here...but I did want to throw it out there.
Feel free to discuss...
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Sam Bradford
SB came back, and wasn’t asked to do any more than he already has- QB and direct the offense.
Taylor came back and was asked to be much much more. Tutor the other safeties and CB’s, cover up for the inability of our inexperienced LB’s to stop the run once Fangupo went down and injuries to Armstead, Perry, et al. Because of his speed, Coach Carroll thought Taylor would make up ground on the pass plays while playing totally out of position closer to the LOS. He was set up to fail last year.
Coach Carroll did not do him any favors for his senior season. Carroll practically sabotaged the entire team with his doghouses and playing favorites. He was so busy defending his choice for Barkley, he lost sight of what it meant to take the Pac 10 seriously. I’m not kidding, after Barkley beat tOSU at the Horseshoe, Coach CArroll thought the Pac 10 would be a walk in the park. Coach Carroll was wrong on many fronts last year. OC Bates is one of the more glaring things. TayMay out of position was another. Personal snobbery on his part was the third most glaring mistake he committed.
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
Well stated
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Definitely Mays
I really think Mays was a definite top 15 pick last year. He is not even a sure thing to go in the 2nd round today, and if so, maybe late in the 2nd. Huge contract impact.
Mays took one for the team
Mays was out of position because he had exposure at corner and LBs that could not stop the run effectly. Top that off with a position coach that was over his head with DC responsibilities and the result is Mays ends up with egg on his face.
Taylor Mays sacraficed plenty for the good of the team.
This was the surprising part to me
I find it a bit hypocritical that PC urges his players to stay all 4 years and then picks a player who didn’t. Said player might be better but when one of the players available is your guy, who you recruited and were supposed to develop I makes me scratch my head.
I wonder if anyone in the Seattle media will call Pete out on this in the coverage following the draft. If he truly has all of the personnel power that he always wanted to leave for, then how does he end up leaving his own guy on the board to take a less experienced player at the same position? Perhaps Carroll knew from coaching Mays all those years that his abilities were limited to that center fielder role? Or did he want to avoid the stigma of playing favoritism with USC players (a la Spurrier w/ the Redskins picking up Florida players)?
Does the snub say more about Pete or Taylor? Only time will tell, but it’s mind-boggling for sure.
I doubt it on favoritism
he has BMW, Groots and Powdrell signed up…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
Yeah, but anyone could have signed those guys
and at this point they don’t take the place of someone else. They can only pick one guy to fill that draft spot. Favoritism with respect to Williams and Co. would only be a problem if they get a spot on the final roster over someone else, but homerism in a draft pick would be a much bigger deal.
Word is right now
that GM John Schneider was calling the shots on the draft, not Pete.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Don't blame him...
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
Not contrarian at all, imho
You raise some legitimate questions.
"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess
Problem with the question
There was no guarantee that Mays would have gone in the first round last year. After all he was suppose to this year and that didn’t happen. All the questions about his cover skills were there last year and would have driven him down in that draft too. It’s not because he was out of position last year at USC, the problem is the NFL asks safeties to cover WRs like never before. If anything, what USC did with him last year masked any deficiencies in his cover skills. Maybe, just maybe he isn’t a safety at the next level, but then that didn’t stop Tebow from going in the first round as a QB!
Nice Writeup, Para
The Seto critique may be quite valid. But, PC played DB in college, so that should have been an area of strong development on the team.
Upon further reflection, I think USC has proven that we develop good DBs, as there are a number of them in the League. And, just look at T2, who is kicking ass. I just think that we used Taylor the wrong way in our system. Safety net rather than Lightning rod.
TM's "Development?"
There is an old saying in basketball: “You can’t teach height.”
You also can’t teach fluid hips.
If you read some of these scouting reports TM, there are just as many concerns about some of Taylor’s physical limitations AS A SAFETY. The fact that he’s huge gives concern that he might “out grow” the safety position. He plays upright and doesn’t have great lateral speed because lacks fluid hips and doesn’t change position quickly. I don’t think you can teach that.
Taylor was also a victim of the fast pace of change in the NFL. When TM was a frosh, Sean Taylor type safeties were all the rage. The cover 2 was the dominant defense. Now it’s small safeties who can double as corners and play man-to-man, and I think only Chicago employs the Cover 2 as their primary defense.
Also, the NFL with its hard salary cap and very rigid slotting system regarding first round contracts all but ensures that most teams draft players for value — who might never be “stars” but will play and start for five to seven years. That’s a big reason why half of all first round draft choices were linemen. Safeties, like centers and offensive guards, are not seen as value picks. If you wanna be a 1st round draftee, play OT or DE.
Anyway, the sudden surge of PC bashing is a little disconcerting. I mean the man only took a program that hadn’t seriously made a run for a national championship in 20 years and delivered 2 NCs, played in 7 straight BCS games, finished with 7 straight top 4 rankings and now he’s a hypocrite for trying to put the best team on the field, which includes urging your QB to stay 4 years while in another situation drafting someone who is leaving early?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day...
The scouting reports and evolving game killed Mays, not his Senior year.
Hey! How about a little TF rant for old times sake?
STILL LOCO AFTER ALL THESE YEARS!
CELEBRATING THE DAWN OF THE AGE OF AUGUSTUS
M·AGRIPPA·L·F·COS·TERTIVM·FECIT
Yah lets here some TF you know Penrose is defending TF over at WeAreSc
Well I would write something but I can't think of anything, so GO ME.
by so.cal.native1952 on Apr 23, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
This is true
When I see Taylor, I think of Steve Atwater. Did John Lynch have fluid hips? No. Does Roy Williams have fluid hips? No. Does Troy Polamalu have fluid hips. Yes.
The game has changed. The big headhunter safety has been marginalized a bit, and now it’s all about speed and versatility, as evidenced by the Seahawks Early Thomas pick. I would also add that this evolution seems to be a byproduct of the incorporation of spread-type, one back passing attacks, a la Pats and Saints.
I absolutely agree with this
The big problem with comparing Mays and Taylor is the conflation of their abilities into the position that they played. They both played safety, but they have very, very different builds and skill sets.
It’s like comparing Stanley Havili to a prototypical bruising fullback, and arguing that the selection of one over another necessarily means something beyond what role they felt they needed, and what role they were able to play.
Porn ha!
An attorney in my office is a HUGE fantasy football geek, he subscribes to every insider, paid scouting NFL site available. He gave me his log in and password to ESPN Insider, abnd Todd McShay LOVES the phrase “fluid hips,” which essentially means the hips rotate quickly, meaning you can change direction and move laterally quickly.
Yep, kinda like what they look for in porn stars.
Yes he did...
those are some great memories.
But PC had some faults as well, Like Mays, maybe his faults were masked because we always won.
There a number of things that that always bothered me but I was willing to let it go when we won…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
Taylor is a 49er
This is nice since he will have a couple of games a year to smash Pete Carroll’s wide receivers. He’s going to probably step up his game when he plays the Seahawks.
Ummm, so you want to see Taylor headhunt Golden?
Hell to the Yeah We Do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK
I give, who is this beautiful example of the fairer side.
"Government is the opiate of the masses" Dennis Prager
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!"
Just your prototypical 49ers fan
flown in from a strip joint in Sacramento or Fresno. Point being, Taylor might be in a better place for his long-term objectives. Singletary, young aggessive defense, the Ronnie Lott comparisons…..maybe things worked out for the best for Taylor.
Hard to tell to tell...
I used to work for a plastic surgeon…the good ones make it very difficult for you to tell if they real or fake without their shirt on…
The key is proportionality…
"Mention USC to a Bruin and they get angry; mention UCLA to a Trojan and they laugh."
T Mays
1st round, 2nd round.. The money will be there. Does it really matter where you go if you CAN play… It’s all about heart & desire. I’m glad he gets to play for Singletary. A breath of fresh air might do him good.
~md
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