UCLA Stoops to the Academic Argument Yet Again
by Paragon SC on Feb 1, 2010 1:12 PM PST
in USC Football
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PrintFunny how things work.
First, a little history...
When Pete Carroll was the coach he did not offer Marquis Jackson a scholarship to play at USC. Marquis is the brother of USC LB Malik Jackson. Malik wasn't highly rated as some of the guys at USC, but he has been given ton of opportunities to play and prove himself on the field while being at USC. That says a lot. Guys who want it bad enough find a way.
One of the stories out there was that Marquis' grades were an issue...I do know that Marquis did have to go the JC route so it certainly lines up that he did have some academic issues. That is fine, it looks like he repaired his academic issues. Jackson, when no offer was coming from SC, committed to ucla for the class of 2010. Whatever Pete Carroll's reasons for not offering Marquis were, they left when PC went to Seattle.
So, this past weekend Marquis decided to take a last second look and came to USC for an official visit. Of course the bruin boards lit up that Marquis didn't get the grades for ucla...
Now that is interesting.
Really? He didn't have the grades? As of when?
This didn't seem to be an issue before he took his official visit to USC, so why is it an issue now. Surely the ucla admissions office did their due diligence before offering him right?
What a bunch of babies...
I love how most of the ucla faithful want to ignore the fact that 70% of of their players are special admits. Most top programs have to get these players to be viable on the field, ucla is no different. So Marquis takes his visit. It is not hard to see that the new coaching staff may have a different take on Marquis' ability to get into USC and it should not surprise anyone if the brothers wanted to play together...blood is thicker than anything else.
So should we be surprised when that wimp Tracy Pierson of BRO starts throwing the grades card out there?
Not really.
I find it amusing that Pierson was so quick to throw Marquis under the bus because he was certain that Marquis was going to flip to USC... I find it appalling that he made that crap up just to try and save face for UCLA. This clown has no shame.
This is the same clown who chastised his own readers when they complained about Pierson and the BRO staff. Pierson even threatened to ban anyone who badmouthed the BRO staff when the masses didn't agree with the party line being thrown out.
Now, here is the kicker...
It would appear that Marquis will stick with ucla, honoring his commitment. It would appear that SC simply came too late to the table...that is fine, I completely understand Marquis' line of thinking.
But what about Marquis' grades? WIll he be cleared acdemically?
Well....
You guessed it!
All of a sudden he has the grades to get into ucla.
How is it that in just three days Jackson goes from being qualified, to not being qualified, back to being qualified just because he chose to visit the cross town rival and then decided to stay with his original commitment?
Pierson is a first rate clown. To use the grade card because the kid might want to consider playing along with his brother at the crosstown rival smacks of being a whiny spoiled brat. What an embarrassment. These guys have just exposed themselves big time. They don't have the stones own up to it.
UCLA fans are going to have to get used to two things...
1) Outside of athletics USC is neck and neck academically with UCLA. There may have been a disparity in the past but those days are long gone.
2) UCLA can no longer claim the moral high ground when it comes to academics with their athletes. They take a lot of special admits just to field a team. It has been that way for a long a time....its just that many of us now know the truth.
Anyone want to lay odds that that Pierson won't retract what he wrote?
Fat chance...
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I didn't know who this D-bag was till a few days ago
WOW. I can’t believe he actually threatened his own readers, who pay to see this guy’s material, that he will ban them because they don’t agree with his points. He’s like a Nestor 4.0
Tracy
is also the guy who admitted he shades his Bro stories to drive membership. In other words he is willing to lie to the Blues so he can make more money. As to “grades”, it’s interesting that USC has a higher NCAA APR ranking and always has too. Funny how that is never brought up by bruins.
The Special Admit Argument
They take a lot of special admits just to field a team. It has been that way for a long a time….its just that many of us now know the truth.
This isn’t really evidence of anything.
1) The fact that they’ll take some people that don’t technically qualify doesn’t mean they’ll take anyone.
2) Whether someone qualifies goes well beyond the numbers typically reported. One could be a high school valedictorian with a 2400 SAT and not technically qualify.
3) There’s no equivalent measure at any (D-IA) school other than Cal. It’s impossible to know how many USC (or even Stanford) athletes would be special admits under UC guidelines.
ehh
I’d bet that like 90% of all university athletes would be considered special admits in that there is no way they would have gotten into that school if they were regular applicants. The remaining 10%? The Ivys who don’t award athletic scholarships. (and even then….)
Well
A special admit is anyone that fails to meet UC minimum requirements. The trouble is that the UC system has fairly complicated requirements that go beyond a GPA+SAT/ACT Index. USC and Stanford, on the other hand, have no minimum requirements, so nobody is a special admit.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 1, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
That isn't right.
USC and Stanford do have minimum requirements, they have the same one every other program does in D1A football. This argument reminds me of that old saying: don’t complain about something you choose to do. The UC minimum requirements are based on passing certain courses and taking the required tests, there is no index. That comes into play during the evaluation of who gets admitted or not (hence the reason UCLA and Cal fans fight so much over this issue too). If you are now saying special admits don’t even have those requirements, those kids are not getting into USC or just about anywhere else.
by ev on Feb 1, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
The UC System requires two SAT II Tests (SAT Subject Tests) in any discipline except Math I while USC and Stanford “recommend” that applicants take the same tests. At the same time, no one has established minimum grades admission on the SAT II’s or SAT and ACT for that matter. The UC’s also put a high premium on ridiculous criteria like having had parents that didn’t attend college. It’s all bullshit, anyone can accept the athletes they want. Son, do you know how to sign your name?
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
Are you sure about that SBM?
I thought everyone-even special admits-had to meet basic UC eligibility requirements. I understood special admits to UCLA were those who fell well below UCLA admission criteria but were still UC eligible.
USC, Stanford and any private school is technically in a better position to recruit than the state schools in that they can set wahtever admissions criteria they choose, so long as the players meet basic NCAA eligibility requirements. Obviously, Stanford does not go down to those standards for its players, not sure about USC.
BTW, gnossos, UCLA is forbidden by state law to do affirmative action recruiting.
Finally, Paragon, its a LOL moment for me when you write:
USC is neck and neck academically with UCLA. There may have been a disparity in the past but those days are long gone.
“May” have been a disparity? Uhm, there was a huge one…for years. USC has certainly made up ground on UCLA recently, although a fair consideration of that improvement would take into account that USC manipulates its SAT scores to improve the academic appearance of its admittees. Personally, I felt the academic thing was always overblown-I know plenty of smart ’SC alums and plenty of dumb Bruins, and vice versa. USC has always had excellent grad schools, but the tendency of USC to admit trust-fund morons and third-generation Trojans does make for good teasing-ask that Wal-Mart heiress who hired the girl to go to class and take her tests. Straight outta “Making the Grade!”
The years in question were fewer than bruins would like to admit
When I accepted at USC back in the late 70s, there was no real difference in the academics between the two schools. That changed in the mid-80s till early this decade. That being said, with the budget problems the state is throwing at the UCs it might just flip around (and those troubles will go on for years to come).
by ev on Feb 1, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
USC does not manipulate the SAT scores. Applicants are encouraged to submit ALL their SAT scores and USC will consider the highest score for each subject. The UC’s demand that applicants submit all their scores because they want to discourage people from taking the test too many times. This creates “fairness” because underprivileged applicants can’t afford to take the test over and over. In reality what happens is that people take the test over and over anyway and only submit their best sitting. The UC’s have no power to demand non-submitted scores from The College Board. In essence, the scores are “pre-manipulated” for the UC’s by it’s applicants. Now, cut the bullshit.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
BTW, the UC’s are going to make the SAT Subject Tests “optional” in 2012. This will put them in line with everybody else. Also, the pedestrian CSU system has the same SAT score policy as the UC’s. The affirmative action thing is craftily disguised with preferences for students with parents that didn’t go to college. That’s how you end up with 60% Asians at UCLA.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
i thought we had 60% Asians because UCLA is a huge brand-name in Asia and they’re all super nerds! O.o
Wow
stupid AND racist. You stay classy, SC!
impaulv is a Bruin you idiot, he also happens to have a sense of humor. There’s always some moron in the room ready to point fingers. Sorry amigo you’re the stupid and classless one.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
by Locoweed 1.1 on Feb 2, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
If the numbers are correct
paul has a 60% chance of being asian. If this is true, does this mean he can’t be a racist, or can he still be one of those self-hating guys.
Whatever happened to, "just having a sense of humor"?
Why does it always have to devolve down to the term “racist” whenever one pokes fun at any particular group of people, regardless of what color, creed, or ethnicity they (the one poking fun) belongs to?
Racist, to me- means that a person believes in the superiority of a particular race over those of other or differing races, and possessing the inherent prejudices based on this. Further, the racist usually is not being humorous when he/she is being outwardly antagonistic towards other races in debates or discussions.
Having a sense of humor seems to be getting the short-shrift these days. I’m part Asian and I was not at all offended by Paul’s comment, I found it totally hilarious. Then again, I know Paul comes here with epic comic relief, and he’s got a “thinking-man’s” sense of humor. Albeit, sometimes he comes a little too close to the line at times but. . . . . .
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Feb 3, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Score Choice is pretty new
There hasn’t even been a class yet that has used it. Submitting only the best sitting might “pre-manipulate” scores (maybe), but that doesn’t have any relevance to any of the data that exists.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 1, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
Please reveal the data you speak of.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
SAT's?
You just said that applicant’s withholding their SAT scores has no relevance. Look, The College Board is a business, and they came up with Score Choice in order to entice applicants to take the test more times. They know exactly how people game the system to present themselves as best they can.
The State has a different view of things, they’re trying to engineer “fairness” into the application process. As a practical matter it doesn’t happen, as high school counselors give the wink and nod and tell people to submit only their best sitting. USC (and the vast majority of schools) encourages an honest alternative, submit all the scores and you won’t be penalized.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
Because
Score choice has existed for precisely zero freshman classes so far.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 1, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Applicants have been doing their own versions of “Score Choice” for a generation with a wink and a nod from high school councilors.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
Hmm
My SAT scores were sent direct from the College Board to every school that required a copy of the scores (which was every school to which I applied).
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 1, 2010 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, of course
Score Choice is going to let kids break up their scores during each sitting. If say you did well in math you can send only that score. That means a kid can prep for each section individually and blow off the others if the score sucks. Until now you’ve had to had to send all the scores for a sitting, but you could instruct the College Board which sitting to report. The College Board wants people to take the test as many times as possible, they’re only interested in their own bottom line.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
We're talking athletics DJ...that wa sthe point throughout the post...
With respect to all of you went to university…
Congrats…I took a different route and could not possibly know what it was like.
I could give two hoots about the academic side of things. You don’t see me touting the academics of either school…I wouldn’t know the difference but I do know that both schools take a fair number of specials…Don’t forget my cousin is Marcedes Lewis and I know the intimate details of the recruiting process from both the USC and ucla side of things from the parents view point.
Marc’s Step Dad gave me the whole scoop.
It is a dirty business and coaches twist admissions arms all the time to try and get guys in.
You guys are kidding yourselves if you think differently
Yep, and Marcedes was recruited by a true “Mr. Clean” aka Karl Dorrell.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
So? He had like a 3.0 high school gpa, not great, but not bad (by athlete standards)… And I think he graduated from UCLA with like a 3.3?
College is recruiting is messy. Lets face it, a vast majority of these athletes wouldn’t be going to college any other way. The whole academic epeen argument is stupid. If they can play, aren’t criminals and passed HS, let them play. If they can’t pass college classes, then kick them out. The only academic argument I think is legit is when schools are intentionally lowering the college academic standards for their players. (not saying that’s the case anywhere in particular)
I'm pretty sure that's the case
There are basically three ways to qualify for the UC’s:
1) Take the A-G courses and get a minimum score on the GPA/SAT index. Minimum GPA 3.0 for CA, 3.4 OOS.
2) A-G courses + top 4% of graduating class. Minimum GPA 3.0 for CA; other states N/A
3) Qualify by SAT/ACT alone. Basically comes to an average of 700 per section.
I’ve heard of plenty of athletes with sub-3.0 GPA’s in high school, so unless they did disproportionately well on the SAT they wouldn’t be UC eligible. Also, most non-CA recruits probably aren’t taking all the A-G courses and I’ve heard that a lot don’t take the Subject Tests.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 1, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
Hate to tell you my bruin but a revenue athlete gets in with different circumstances.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well shyte Howdy I can't believe my eyes--OK
Hey where is that Dunk by your old PF- C he didn’t stick around, but effing crap your team has started to rebound.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Also
Getting a 3.0 GPA (unweighted) in public school A-G courses is ridiculously easy. Teachers do somersaults for their students to get the “number.”
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
True
Even so, I do know someone (current Boise St. player) that was never offered by UCLA because of grades. He didn’t make the NCAA minimums until taking the SAT in the spring. The point is that there is a gap between UCLA’s minimum standards and the NCAA minimums, and how large that gap is can’t really be measured by the Special admit percentage.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 1, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, maybe
But getting the top 4% of graduating class isn’t the easiest thing in the world. I was #12 out of like 250+ & that’s only like top 5%. I think it was my super awesome ACT skillz that got me in :-P and I had decent SAT IIs, so that might have helped
Keep this in mind
fUCLA has a commit in the 2.6GPA Cassius Marsh. And they didn’t offer Desean Jackson because he couldn’t make it.
In other words, Go Bears!
It’s all about fUCLA’s inferiority complex. It’s a shallow and soulless place, and definitely a huge cut below THE University Of California.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
You stole our colors, fight song, mascot, name and everything else. Thankfully the recruits you “stole” from us haven’t hurt us (Hasaik, Caroll, lol)
In other words, Go Bears!
QQ moar
The Cal Student Council was the one who proposed the colors & mascot.
As for the name, are you mad at the other UCs? We didn’t name ourselves. Cal is great, yeah we know. It was 1 of the 4 schools I got accepted to, it just wasn’t the right fit for me. No need to hate UCLA, UCLA certainly doesn’t hate Cal. Academically, Cal is the better school. But we have a better dance team :-)
Carroll was a Cal recruit?
Other UCs. SD’s mascot who the hell cares, Santa Cruz is a banana slug, Davis is an effing horse, etc etc
In other words, Go Bears!
how about them Irivine ’eaters?!
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
by Locoweed 1.1 on Feb 2, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, he does have academic problems
which is why he is now planning to enroll in the fall instead of the spring when he originally planned.
UCLA JC admissions are needlessly rigid and inflexible. Its hard to transfer unless you have specifically taken classwork your two years at JC just to get to UCLA. I don’t think it makes the transfers any better, its just a needless artificial barrier to make weeding people out easier.
That may be but it didn't change in the past 72 hours... either the problems are there or they aren't...
that clown Tracy can’t throw it out there then pull it back because the situation changes…he has been exposed and he does not represent the program well…
It's still easier to transfer into a UC
than a private school. The JCs design their classes around kids transferring into the Cal state and UC system. Makes sense since that is where most of the kids plan and do end up. Most of the credits apply unless you are taking remedial or off the wall courses. However that isn’t the case with private universities like USC. Kids do have a harder time getting them to take credits.
by ev on Feb 1, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Not so easy to get into Cal. I had many transfer friends and their stories confirm that belief. And I know personally how tough it was to get in from HS
In other words, Go Bears!
Everybody knows Cal has actual standards; fUcla not so much.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
better like the military grade ones you were issued.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
yup!
They came in handy while boarding dhows & merchant ships while on counter-narcotics/piracy ops in the Gulf.
On yer knees sailor, them be pirates a-waitin on ye. Be sure to rinse with some grog.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
you tell me since you’re the one with the “experience”
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
having dated one of the few hot Cal chicks while in college
The hippies on Telegraph stink worse than those Arabian pirates…
Funny thing is that I have known plenty of D+ players in FB and BB that have gone to Ucla
In fact it was always known that the dumb ones went to Ucla and Cal, never SC and Stanford. Now the Geeks that end up Poly Si Majors I can understand, because they are worthless to gaining revenue for the University.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 6:00 PM PST reply actions
And another thing UC people will be off their High Hobby Horse soon when they will be taking anyone to get monies to support their PAYROLL.
Well unless the cheapass alumni decide to give something back NOTTTTTTTTTTTT
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 6:10 PM PST reply actions
You know the other thing is how many of you UC bloggers actually played a sport at your college?
Oh and beer pong doesn’t count Nes, TY, Tele, etc.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 6:12 PM PST reply actions
I would be mean and say how many of you SC bloggers went to USC, but I respect Paragon & his fandom too much. I’m just saying so.cal, yeah it’s great you played tennis at the JC level and I’m sure you could have went to the Olympics, you could have been a contender, and all that jazz but I’m not sure how whether UC bloggers played a sport plays into the conversation.
But if you must know, my soccer team nearly won by the “C” IM Soccer league championship by default due to forfeit until the other team showed up :-(
Plus I had no problem beating your precious Bruin players that year.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 6:40 PM PST up reply actions
ah, thanks for the clarification
Thought there was a “my swartz is bigger than yours” contest going on!
Dude I was saying that the geeks don't know how the athletes get in, that they think that is not a double standard.
Basically life is not what you know but who you know and how much money you have not make.
Except here in the OC it is how you look and how big your house is, and plastic accessories you have.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
haha, but in all seriousness, let's try and keep some of the personal stuff out
--Conquest Chronicles, SBNation's USC Trojans blog
There is not really any personal stuff in anything I said
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, whether you beat UCLA in a tennis match 20+ years ago is not necessarily relevant to USC-UCLA academic standards in 2010
--Conquest Chronicles, SBNation's USC Trojans blog
Really so tell me exactly what I can say
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
really ok then you should take action after every post then
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Joey throwing his weight around?
Kid should take it easy, this is supposed to be fun.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
I never started a tennis story Paul V put that out there I just answered
Listen I usually don’t comment on JKs threads and I never will. So I haven’t put anybody down just having fun back and forth with PV. But I guess i will just -————-
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Hang in there Paul, you’re this blogs funny bone. You’ve been joking around with Pablo for a long time. Joey’s gotta learn the ropes.
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
yeah
I <3 Paul K. He’s the comic relief here. I’m the Abott to his Costello. The Larry to his Curly… the Triumph the Insult Comic Dog to his Masturbating Bear…
PS- Tennis sucks. BTW, is Serena Williams a woman? Seriously, I caught a little of that Austrailian Open match against that little Belgium chick, and I felt soooo sorry for that Euro Chick. Serena is MASSIVE
I hate the Williams sisters and family, seriously they are a joke.
You only sat that because you are very good at it, in fact when I needed competitive players on my HS team it was the Soccer players I could depend on not giving up. Did you know that John MacEnroe was a HS all-american soccer player.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
Oh that is my fault PV didn't mean to get you mad just thought the thread was taking up space.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 1, 2010 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
Just to clear the record Playing Soccer and a grad from Ucla, is super in my book.
Paul V thank you for keeping our borders safe while working for the US Navy, also nice work in getting a degree from one of the top schools in the nation and making Angelenos proud. Oh and I found Coke a cola at Bev-mo made with real cane suger the other day, want some.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 2, 2010 4:30 AM PST reply actions
Throwback Pepsi is pretty good too. Sadly even Mexican Coke and Pepsi have corn syrup in them now, ugh!
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
Loco this stuff is from Mexico and is 1.69 at bev mo I don't know how long they will have it.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 2, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Holy crap! That’s a real find, they must be bringing it up all the way from central Mex, the stuff they have along the border has HFCS instead of sugar. See you at BevMo!
"I found Rome built of brick; I leave her clad in marble" - Augustus
by Locoweed 1.1 on Feb 2, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
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