More of the NCAA's flawed procedures...
by Paragon SC on Dec 16, 2010 7:00 AM PST
in General NCAA
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PrintUnbelievable!
These new developments are really alarming. They show the depth that the NCAA will go to keep their thumb on USC.
Can the NCAA be any more corrupt?
First, a quick review...
When the NCAA hammered USC back in June our attention turned to just how and why the NCAA was able to hand down the ruling that many see as a modern day death penalty.
In reviewing the the NCAA's findings many were stunned and astonished at just how weak and flawed the NCAA's findings were when based on the totality of the charges. Not that the anger of that day has ever worn off but subsequent reviews of the case and then the NCAA either looking the other way to other possible infractions of Auburn's Cam Newton or the barely looked at LaMichael James car swap reveal a double standard by the NCAA.
As we know, USC is now preparing its appeal. The guidelines set within the appeals process only allow the school to address issues within the ruling...they are not allowed to bring in any NEW evidence.
That narrows the window for 'SC to get the findings reversed, more on that in a bit, it is an important standard that the NCAA has set.
Within the last two months the NCAA separated the appeal of former USC running backs coach Todd McNair from USC's appeal.
That development alone is significant!
McNair is the key to both the NCAA's case against USC and USC's appeal against the findings.
We have already seen the NCAA trash any sense of fair process in their ruling up to this point so it really should not surprise anyone that they made this move to make it even tougher for both USC and McNair to get a fair hearing.
But the NCAA goes a step further...
And this one is a doozie.
From Dan Weber at USCFootball.com...
The former USC football assistant says the Committee has made a flawed case far worse by bringing in, contrary to its own rules of procedure and evidence, new, mistaken, immaterial, irrelevant, contradictory and false allegations against him, even to the point of inventing quotes and making a first-ever "phantom finding."
A "fundamental violation of due process," is how McNair describes what the NCAA has done here.
The Infractions Committee's response "confirms that the findings against McNair are clearly contrary to the evidence," McNair and his attorney, Scott Tompsett of Kansas City, say in a November rebuttal to the Infractions Appeals Committee that was obtained by USCFootball.com.
It is pretty clear that the NCAA will ANYTHING to keep USC from challenging the NCAA's findings.
I can see how USC AD Pat Haden was dumfounded by the Newton findings last month and the lack of consistency in the NCAA enforcing their own rules.
I have issues with McNair and have said so in the past. I understand that McNair is/was a mentor to his players. He is a sounding board and an extra pair of eyes to help his players get through the rigors of playing D-1 football while trying to get an education.
But my issues with McNair were that he took things a bit too far in partying with his players. In my eyes that is a line that should not be crossed.
With that being said, it doesn't mean that McNair should not get a fair hearing, his fair process rights within the organization should not be trashed and the goal posts should not be moved mid-process.
Here is what the NCAA is now claiming...(emphasis added)
The Committee also revealed in its response to McNair that, contrary to what it ruled in the June Infractions Report, it had found that McNair knew about improper benefits being given by Lake to Bush before the late-night Jan. 8, 2006 phone call from Lake to McNair that it depended on in the original case. It now says that McNair knew earlier because he saw "Lake get hotel rooms for xxxx's friends" and Lake said "he was told by xxxx that McNair knew about certain things . . . "
The problem here, McNair and his attorney contend, is that "These allegations were not alleged in the Notice of Allegations and, therefore, McNair never provided a defense to these vague, unsubstantiated allegations" in his appeal. And that all these months later, this is "the first time the COI [Committee on Infractions] informed McNair that it based its unethical finding on Lake's claims."
How do you defend against something that was never alleged the first time around? If new evidence isn't allowed during the appeals process for the defendant (McNair) then how can the plaintiff (the NCAA) introduce new "evidence" even if said evidence is flawed (more fruit of poisonous tree?)? There is lot more in Weber's piece but I won't copy and paste it all so please go read it.
As you will see the NCAA's interpretation of one persons "opinion" seems to be the rule and not hearsay.
The NCAA hammered 'SC because "they should have known". Lake is hardly a credible witness but there was enough evidence out there (Ornstein) that shows Reggie Bush's family took the money.
No one will dispute that.
What is in dispute is how or why McNair could have known.
The NCAA goes a long way to coach and cajole Lake along to cobble together a story...a story where Lake has never produced a single receipt of the alleged money given. I am not talking about living rent free in a house.
The NCAA is playing with fire here and it is clear that it doesn't care. Until the appeals process is over USC is not going to entertain filing a lawsuit. If they do decide to go that route I would not expect USC to be successful but winning isn't always goal...pulling back the curtain of one of the most corrupt organizations we have ever seen could go a long way.
I realize that some will call this whining or think we are chasing conspiracy theories but even USC's most ardent detractors have be concerned with this. It is going to get worse if this organization is left unchecked.
But then again, how much worse can it really get?
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Paul Dee really believes that he is above...
…the NCAA’s rules and due process. He felt that way in the 90’s when he ran Miami in the gutter, so how could anyone be surprised now?
It’s a dark time for the NCAA. There is no greater threat to the integrity of CFB than the NCAA itself. If no one within the organization has the leadership to address it, I can only hope the organization is exposed in a court of law for what it is. It’s fundamentally American that any organization with as much power as the NCAA would be expected to honor and respect for it’s own rules and due process, and make genuine efforts to apply it’s justice uniformly and without malice.
Regardless of how this ends, USC will be fine in the long run. Todd McNair is perhaps a different story. No matter how you feel about him, you have to agree that his career as a CFB coach has been greatly damaged by the NCAA’s decisions. Unfortunately, there are profound flaws in the NCAA’s collection of and interpretation of evidence against Todd McNair. Further, it is evident that his due process has been (and contiues to be) violated. It is a complete miscarriage of justice to Todd McNair…delivered by a committee of people who never had any regard for his justice in the first place. They had their agenda, and McNair was merely a piece of meat to be devoured along the way. Inexcusable in America…
I realize that some will call this whining or think we are chasing conspiracy theories but even USC’s most ardent detractors have [to] be concerned with this.
The problem is, they aren’t concerned, because it has become blatantly obvious that no other school will be subject to the same level of scrutiny and enforcement as USC.
In Dan Weber's linked article:
THIS IS HOW THE APPEAL SHOULD BE HANDLED! What McNair’s lawyer is doing is exactly WHAT AND HOW an appeal should be brought before the Appeal Panel!
This is and has been THE ONLY WAY to win on appeal.
Now, I’m thinking USC is in a strong position. Here’s my reasoning:
By allowing McNair’s lawyers do the grunt work (read: chastise the procedures and systematically draw story to COI malfeasance), while USC stays in NCAA good graces by merely challenging the COI’s Final Report through limited arguments, but enough to carry weight to bringing bad PR on the Committee and not necessarily demonizing “the process or conduct” of the COI at the same time.
Here’s the rub: If McNair wins his appeal or doesn’t- and later sues the bajeebus outta the NCAA- USC can later use any judgments made in McNair’s favor to have their sanctions either expunged or removed. That doesn’t necessarily translate to getting our share of recruits or make better any situation where our existing players transfer out and leave, but. . . . .on the other hand- we MIGHT get our championship season back and possibly have our probationary period removed from a favorable judgment on McNair’s case.
In other words, McNair is being used as a pawn (in my view of it). It might be voluntarily, it might not be HOWEVER- USC Legal is potentially operating in a very, very calculated manner. And the only thread of hope I have going for me on this is that. . . .Mike Garrett is not involved.
Short of the long of it: McNair is formulating a FANTASTIC APPEAL. It could reap benefits for IUSC in the long run?
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
[edit: adding to 2nd paragraph, left it incomplete]
(continuing after “. . .of the COI at the same time.”) . . .all USC has to do is sit back while McNair’s appeal gets heard, help TM’s lawyer(s) in any way with data, information, etc., and hope for the best coming out of the Appeal Committe. In this way, USC doesn’t draw any attention that would make them seem unattractive to the NCAA, thereby continuing AD Pat Haden’s path towards reconciliation with them. (end)
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 16, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Any bad press the NCAA gets regarding McNair...
…between now and USC’s appeal…might help USC in their appeal. However, the press has shown no interest in investigating or reporting the NCAA’s actually process so far. Some have expressed that the penalties were too severe, but that’s about it.
Regardless of what happens with McNair, I expect USC to simply move on after the NCAA rules on USC’s appeal. I don’t believe USC has any further recourse under NCAA bylaws, and a civil action (i.e. sueing them) would not come to fruition within a time frame that would ease the sanctions. USC could sue them to prove a point, and I hope they do, but I doubt they will.
This whole affair is a dark chapter of NCAA justice brought down by individuals with a long history of pursuing personal agendas without any respect for intergity or fair play If the NCAA leadership chooses to tolerate and ignor this (and I suspect they will), they can probably get away with it as it pertains to USC. USC will be temporarily damaged and bounce back either way. But the stakes are higher for McNair. If his legal council can really prove that he was deprived of due process and blind justice to the extent that they assert in their appeal and recent comments, then I believe there is a good chance that the NCAA handling of this case will be exposed, and condemned in a court of law. And that would satisfy me.
I agree
And I know it is remote that USC will take any action “post Appeal” regardless of the McNair Appeal or potential lawsuit McNair might bring before the courts and against the NCAA- but I do believe it is an avenue worthy of discussion.
It will all boil down to: Who is Pat Haden and Max Nikias? Do they have anger and disappointment that we, as lifelong Trojans, possess regarding these sanctions? Are they AS disgusted with the treatment USC has had to suffer?
Fight On! actually means something to all of us.
I think it would bring upon the entire Trojan Nation just as much disgust and disappointment IF Haden & Nikias decide to drop dead and lay down before the NCAA COI, as it did when the COI handed down their initial sanctions.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 16, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Agree again.
That’s one reason why the McNair appeal is so helpful. Assuming they are smart enough to recognize it, the McNair appeal lays out the type of exposure the NCAA has incurred by disregarding their own due process. The NCAA could limit the damage (as far as USC is concerned) by accepting most of USC’s appeal. They could justify it by noting the adminstrative and cultural changes that have occurred at USC…saying “USC has obviously learned its lesson”. I suspect that much of USC’s recent visible compliance efforts (like the golf cart suspension) are geared toward hoping that favorable images will help the cause.
Of course, the NCAA would not have any incentive to soften the sanctions unless they were genuinely concerned that USC would sue and win. We have to assume that they will stick to their original ruling if they believe they can get away with it. Fairness is not a priority to the NCAA. We really can’t know how Haden and Nikias are playing it behind the scenes. But hopefully they understand the scourge that they are dealing with, and they showing enough strength to get their attention.
One question JAG
If USC sues in a California court, couldn’t the judge temporarily stay the penalties? If NCAA has the temerity to challenge the stay, their so-called “evidence” would make them look downright stupid.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I'm not sure why the court would fail to stay the penalties
pending litigation. Maybe I’m missing something.
that should read
“pending the outcome of litigation”
I do suspect it would be in Federal Court
due to diversity of the parties (the NCAA is in Indy right?). There may also be some sort of choice of law provision of the NCAA agreement that could complicate the law applied — I just don’t know.
Agree
Since the NCAA has been sued before, I suspect they have language within thier bylaws and/or operating agreement which would specific the venue. But I don’t know, either,
Neuheisel sued in the State of Washington
and won a fat settlement.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
Interesting...I found this about Neuheisel
The NCAA and UW gave him 4.7 million in a settlement. The trail took place in the state of Washington, and lasted 21 months.
Most interesting of all is the the primary thing that landed him the settlement had nothing to do with the case itself, but the NCAA comitting a procedural error according to its bylaws. Methinks that Todd McNair may be a weathly man his lawyer can prove half their allegations of NCAA misconduct:
The genesis for a settlement was a monumental trial development Feb. 28. NCAA lawyer John Aslin disclosed that the organization failed to provide Neuheisel’s legal team with an updated version of its bylaws during discovery.
At issue was whether those questioned by NCAA investigators must be notified of the purpose of the interview. It turned out the NCAA had amended its bylaws to require such notification six weeks before Neuheisel’s June 2003 interview.
The finding seemed to bolster Neuheisel’s argument that NCAA investigators acted improperly, since they hadn’t advised him they would ask about his gambling in an auction-style pool on NCAA basketball games.
Have you ever seen a governing body that....
amends/changes/revises its rules more often than the NCAA? constantly shifting the goal post to gain incremental leverage.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Yea...
They are never afraid to break new ground to accomplish an agenda. On one hand, USC receives sanctions of unprecedented severity for agent-to-player benefits, and a few monthys later Auburn receives unprecented generosity for a similar offense. And between the two of them, only the Newtons were soliticing pay-for-play…coulda sworn that was a violation, but what do I know?
This is the sort of thing
that has made me positive about legal action all along — the law takes a dim view when organizations treat members differently.
by ilium55 on Dec 16, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Comment of the day!
This is why I’m thinking Todd McNair doesn’t mind being part of this Appeal’s process.
At our hearing, Coaches Floyd, Carroll, and McNair were given VIP treatment from our USC and Pac 10 bigwigs. I’m hoping Larry Scott has the chutzpah as the SEC’s Slive. What I mean by that is I’m hoping there is this unyielding understanding of helping each other (USC & Pac 10, with the blessing of member schools within the Pac 10, er. . . 12) to force some degree of fairness within the COI, as it pertains to our hearing and interpretation of information/data surrounding it.
So, in effect- if McNair is a willing litigator, with the support of USC/Pac 12- and forces the NCAA’s hand in a lawsuit:
Discovery will be a bitch for them
Arguing a point-by-point defense of their actions will even be more of a bitch
I don’t see how any reasonable panel of judges or jury could support their actions, procedures, and sanctions on him or our university.
THAT
SHIT
DOESN’T
FLY
SO
WELL
With reasonable people.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 16, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Except... The Pac-10/12 is the ENEMY!!!!
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I'm the optimist Loco
Maybe a tad naive, to boot? As much as I dislike the NCAA- lemme just say this.
In Chile, my Dad’s generation was all about “Viva la Revolucion!”. My generation has thoughts along the same vein, but a little more cautious. Like, “Okay, let’s KILL the system but, before we do that- WHAT PLANS DO WE HAVE TO REPLACE IT?” (fair question, no?).
My brothers and sisters who are older than I, are just as passionate. Their slogan is, “How soon is now?” (or some variation, thereof). And still they ask, “Who, that is wise among us, can tell OUR story of past and present?”
The reason I inject my native country’s plight in all this is because in Chile, when America is against you and has fought to have you partly destroyed as well as Russia only wanting a part of us due to our resources and close proximity to Argentina, Brazilian, and Venezuelan borders- we knew we were and are being used. We had to go it alone. We trusted no one.
We survived yes, but it was too costly to build any more alliances than we already had and had to. We believed the world was against us, despite the fact that we existed in a longer, and just as culturally prosperous democracy than here in America.
We could have used help, . . . . .if we could afford to trust more.
My life lesson in all this is, IT IS NEVER TOO EXPENSIVE, this commodity called trust. It is invaluable to the self, and for self-preservation. Tell you one thing, we could have come out of the Pinochet years a lot more unscathed.
We’re on top of the world now. If only we can do better in futbol? ;- )
Trust is something Trojans must have in abundance, despite what reality appears before us.
Is all.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 16, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
I like your attitude Bix, your eloquence is the soul of this blog
Living right next to the United States taught los Mexicanos to be far more cynical.
When Pete Carroll asked “what’s your deal” he was trying to remind the Pac-10 that USC never ran up the score in the 4th quarter. Representing the 9 dwarfs, Harbaugh came forth and told us to go fuck ourselves.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
You're very kind to say that Loco!
And I appreciate the sentiment more than I can convey here in these words.
I hear you on Harbaugh. Kelly too, no?
These “utes” don’t know what’s up!
You know what amazes me about Coach Carroll? That he became such a “statesman” and wisened-guru here in the Pac 10 in such an incredibly short amount of time? Not only was he looked up to in this league by coaches with longer tenure, but he was practically the “coach’s diplomat” in our league, with the tacit approval of all in the media and in ALL FORMS of Pac 10 athletics.
Seriously, . . . .he was.
Good call on Harbaugh. (what I find interesting is going over to Michigan Wolverines’ sites, they think that all they have to do “is ask?”, and Harbaugh will come running their way to coach them.
And USC peeps are supposed to carry the mantle for arrogance?
The CFB world is daft, and I’m just sick and tired of we Trojans having to carry the burden of keeping “the curve” at such a high level on the fandom and intelligence levels all these years.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 17, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
I suppose moving on our suing is a choice more about the future
than the past — its a question of burning bridges at the NCAA , and whether those bridges even exist to be burned. Lawyers fees mean little to institutions as large as USC or the NCAA, so maybe it comes down to personality.
Andy Staples wrote a good article on NCAA inconsistency
This isn’t about USC’s case at all but simply points out pretty massive inconsistencies in enforcing it’s own policies in regards to Cam Newton vs Renardo Sidney.
I think this touches on . . . . .
. . . . part of USC’s culpability involved in the Bush eligibility case though. This is not to counter your post, but maybe just add to it a little.
Before I proceed, I want to explain two things: I am not a lawyer, nor do I profess to know anything about case, criminal, or litigation law. Haven’t had any classes dissecting law, nor have I any illusions to even know that I know what I’m talking about. This is pure speculation and personal opinion. Secondly, I don’t care whether you have any law experience or expect me to believe you do. The following is just for pure discussion.
In ViteriUSC’s link this is stated: ""It begs the question: Should I be responsible for the actions of my father … if there’s no evidence that you did, if there’s no evidence that the institution you wound up at knew or was involved in any of this?"(1) [bold emphasis, mine]
SEC commissioner Mike Slive, who gets blamed for engineering the Newton ruling but has received neither blame nor credit for the Sidney ruling, believes the loophole must be closed as quickly as possible. “I don’t think we should wait for the convention,” Slive told SI.com at the SEC Championship Game on Dec. 4. “I think we ought to deal with it right now. I think we ought to get it to the NCAA Board of Directors right now and make whatever changes we need to make to make the rules more specific.” (2)
As far as the (1) comment: This is where I feel “mitigating” circumstances should have been afforded USC. I understand the legal view that: A) this comment from Emmert is specific to the Cam Newton case and not any other case. And B) Emmert’s comment follows specifically along the lines of “athlete didn’t know” and MORE THAN LIKELY should be read specific to this and nothing else. In other words, “this should be taken in whole, and not in part” from the initial interpretation. However. . . . .
Why allow for “mitigating circumstances” whole, or in part in ONE, without allowing for interpretation to be included in “other” aspects involving eligibility. It’s not like these bylaws, amendments, and mandates are the US freaking Constitution!!!! Things can be changed on many levels, not just specific to Cam Newton. That’s using false logic and allows for blind perceptions when you take into consideration the totality of flaws with regards to the current philosophical problems involving amateurism. You can’t “band-aid” these problems. They must be met with and dealt with the full brunt of the outlying factors which contribute to it’s imperfections. I’m not asking for a “perfect” mission statement and constitution of or for the NCAA and it’s member institutions. I’m asking for fairness across the board.
Addressing (2): Of course Commissioner Slive wants this settled right away. He wants this to cover his ass and to preserve any awards and/or championships that the SEC might win should Auburn and Cam win the BCS title game. He’s self-serving, indignant, and sanctimonious when it comes to protecting the brand of his conference. . . . . . .
Something I wish to be imparted upon our new Pac 12 commissioner and ex-UDub AD/now NCAA president Emmert. (fat chance, I know!)
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 16, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
^Hey, nice picture of the Fat F*ck!^
Missy Conboy was at the same party…
She’s wearing Kelly green… Those Domers!
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
I'd hate to see their offspring!
Loco, this is in response to your question about the time frame of a law suit following USC’s NCAA appeal (I couldn’t post it above for some reason). Truth is, I don’t know. I’m not a lawyer. I’ve had some life experiences with the legal system, which tends to move slow in complex cases. And I think we can assume the NCAA would be as obstructive as possible.
My thoughts are that USC will be bound by the ruling of the NCAA’s appeal committee, which is expected (as far as I know) in a few months. Therefore, USC will be down one bowl game and at least 5 scholies before the NCAA even rules. If USC files a suit immediately after the appeal, and it is resolved in two years (which might be optimistic), then USC is already down two bowl games and 25 scholies. At that point, there isn’t much left to play for except principle. Of all the things that a court might overturn, I think the vacated wins are least likely since it will be difficult to establish that Bush was eligible for those games. There may be legal options, such as a stay, which could either delay the penalties or expedite the procedings. It’s a question I can’t answer.
Also the university could seek damages
for the lost bowl payouts — maybe a diminishment of the its brand. I’m pretty sure the court would stay the penalties until litigation was concluded. That could drag for years. Maybe thats a good thing? I don’t know. I can say this — discovery would be alot of fun — I’m sure that no one at that paragon (sorry for the vocab Para) of professionalism — the NCAA — said anything out of school in a memo (insert snark).
I'm sure the NCAA would prefer not to be sued
It’s hard to know if the NCAA feels, from their point of view, that they have any exposure based on how they have conducted the USC investigation. If so, they might be inclined to consider USC’s appeal more carefully, as the granting of this would bring closure to the matter. Although, I am not a lawyer, I’ve heard enough lawyers tell me that you never can predict the outcome of a trial. I’m sure the NCAA would be advised of the same. Haden and Nikias need to walk the fine line of acquiescing to the NCAA’s authority, while also demonstrating a conviction to see that justice is ultimately served in this matter. Between Haden and Nikias, I’m hoping that Nikias is involved in communicating the latter point.
We Are SC!
We are the school that forced Bear Bryant to integrate Alabama football.
We will smash the slaveholder cabal that is the NCAA!
IT’S TIME TO MAKE HISTORY AGAIN!
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
Sue the bastards
for me, it is more a matter of principle and to clear our stained image.
I would also add that all of the “foul play” described in in the post is from Paul Dee’s COI Committee, and NOT the Appeals Committee. The Appeals Committee could still rule in USC’s favor and see the same bias that we see.
Of course, they are still under the umbrella of the NCAA, so it is a long shot. It really amazes me that we can’t seem to find one ethical person at the NCAA who will stand up to Paul Dee. I have not given up on the hope of a successful appeal…yet.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
You can bet Phil Knight has also been pushing the NCAA hard
USC was the only barrier keeping Phil from his wet dream of making it to the BCS championship.
Remember that Prof. James O’Fallon of Oregon was supposed to be on the COI. Funny how O’Fallon, a guy that is a true scholar was replaced by known hardass henchwoman Josephine Potuto in order to “avoid” any “conflict of interest.”
Potuto’s term had expired but they needed a special kind of hack. They brought her back from the dead for this special little project. Phil must have been laughing his ass off!
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
A 'Cam"garoo Court
It’s pretty clear… for USC and the Trojans, it’s a rigged game. The NCAA can lash out in one instance and remain silent in another… despite the visible and proven violation of an NCAA rule presumably designed to “sustain the purity” of amateur athletics. The NCAA sees fit to take the word of an obviously extortion driven ex-con over the word of a professional and law abiding coach who has never before trampled on NCAA rules. In so doing, they harshly punish an institution as well as the innocent mainly out of a desire to do so mixed with said hearsay rather than rely on independently derived and carefully assembled factual evidence. When one father seeks to negotiate then sell his son’s athletic future and does so… that, according to current NCAA rules is a violation… and it is. When another father also tries the very same thing… but is, as thus far reported, not successful… that ALSO is against NCAA rules… but somehow mitigated by the fact that the son says “he didn’t know” about his Papa’s going shopping. Both sons in fact have said the same thing. It’s just that the NCAA has chosen to believe one and not the other. Punish one and not the other. Fairness, legitimacy, nor honesty are made of such components. Hard to believe that the purity of “amateur athletics” could be either.
trojanWar
I don't know whether to laugh or cry
So ingrained was the misguided mythology of the Bush Impala in the mind of the Infractions Committee, former USC head coach Pete Carroll had to interject himself at the end of his Tempe hearing testimony to correct a comment from COI member Missy Conboy, Notre Dame’s deputy AD.
Carroll said this: “Okay I just wanted to say we left something out there, that Missy [Conboy] said that the car was a cool car. It was not. It was not a car that kids really cherished and all that. That is – anyway, the kind of car that everybody would covet. It was kind of ‘Why would you get that one?’ It was really more so. You kind of left it out there like it was a hot-shot car and it really wasn’t.”
McNair’s rebuttal finishes off the Committee’s car silliness with this comment: “The COI has wide latitude in making credibility determinations. But that latitude does not extend so far as to denounce a person’s credibility for voicing his personal opinion about a 1996 Impala.”
1996 Impalas are lame — everyone should know this. After an overhaul by a car mag it was sold to an NFL player (a group not known for their parsimony) for 20-25k, its just an old car.
Yeah, here's the rub on the Impala deal
In the COI’s rebuttal to McNair’s appeal, they are saying that because McNair and Carroll downplayed the importance of the macked-out Impala- those sentiments lend credence to McNair’s/USC’s “lack of credibility” as witnesses and responsibility in the whole eligibility case.
What the f_ _ _?!?!?
Also, the COI, in their written response to rebuttal, said that because the Impala was part of a car magazine highlighted piece and was later sold for between $20K – $22K that IT WAS IN FACT a major deal.
Here’s the rub: they never included NOT JUST the dollar amount, nor reasons for lack of credibility as it pertains to the Impala and McNair’s opinion of it- they are also claiming McNair “should have known” about Lake because of ANOTHER “lack of proof” time/date of McNair knowing about Lake. (they’re referring to a long-distance call placed to Bush while he stayed at a hotel in San Diego, AT THE SAME TIME Lake has testified that he supposedly met up with McNair at the same hotel ON THE SAME WEEKEND?)
How could McNair be in two different places on the same day on the same weekend?
Besides that, this rebuttal is “new evidence” because it wasn’t included in the Final Report and according to NCAA bylaws/amendments: The COI nor investigated parties can bring in to the Appeal process “new evidence” that WASN’T already put forth in the Final Report/hearing testimony.
In other words, they didn’t question McNair about the value of the Impala at the time of the hearing. What’s worse is, the Impala- before it was tricked-out for the car magazine expose’- was re-furbished “after the fact” and after witness testimony.
How crazy is THAT?
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 17, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Hey Tex and JAG:
I can’t download the USC Appeal on PDF. I’m not joking, I would like advice on PDF files. I know a lot about downloading and what not, even PDF’s (I’m using Acrobat Reader, the latest version, just installed about 3 weeks ago), but for some reason????
Would the link to the URL help you guys?
Also, I read earlier that the head of the Appeal Panel is. . . . . . .(check this out?) a USC professor!!!!!!!! At least he was the guy who looked at the Florida State case and a few others.
Wondering???? Must he REALLY recuse himself from ours? (wink, wink- nudge, nudge!)
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 17, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Bix, don't worry about it from my standpoint
If it’s as weak as you say, it would probably dampen on my holidays. So I’m going to hope that USC lawyers did a good job, and the administration is making the right behind-the-scenes moves. Nothing we can do about it, anyway.
I appreciate the creativity, humor and insight that you bring to this site. My ‘advice on PDF files’ is to spend you energy working on something better. :)
Thanks!
Boy! I’m sweatin’ over HERE! (there’s a degree of truth, but a lot of joking too! i feel like an idiot. i have it right here on another tab, but I can’t even highlight it, much less click to the “save” icon on the Reader tray. it’s freaking hellish! what a horrid file?)
I’ve gone on 14-mile bike ride, did an hour’s work of stretching, and . . . . . . I keep FUCKING COMING BACK TO THIS STUFF. ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ?
I’m “overly invested” and it seems. . . .???? . . . .addicted to our appeal.
You’re so right, . . . . .this “wing man” is . . . . .veering right and . . . . .going to the movies.
T-R-O-N !!!!! IT IS!!!!!!
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 17, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Check out "The Fighter"
Just saw it, it’s terrific!
"Understanding is a virtue, hard to come by"
J. Airplane
TRON was massive!
I heard about “The Fighter”. That’s with Mark Wahlberg, yes?
My dad flew into Hawthorne in his new plane yesterday, told me to meet him at some Harley-Davidson shop off Venice Blvd when I got back from surfing yesterday afternoon. When I get to see him, he takes me to Mar Vista Lanes and first thing he asks me is, “How much money do you have, let me borrow some?”
Long story short- by the time he flew out late last night, he already paid me back and with his ‘horse-sense’, allowed me to win close to $2K at Hollywood Park in the CashCall Futurity. This guy!!!!
I won on 3 horses yesterday, and I don’t play the ponies!!!!!
I just get on my email (4:30 AM right now, heading out to snowboard. . .) and of all the talks we had yesterday- I told him you suggested “The Fighter” on this thread to me.
One of my emails is a gift from my Pops, 2 tickets to AMC for the movie. In it he writes, “Don’t tell your brother I ‘GAVE’ you $2K in your pockets at Christmas. Enjoy the movie.! (signed: the only dad that ever loved you)”
I was rolling!
Good call Gnossos. I enjoyed my afternoon/night with my dad. He’s crazy!
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 19, 2010 4:52 AM PST up reply actions
SWEEEEET RIDE!
Where can I get one of those?
Honestly, I don’t think Bitchy Conroy has ever purchased an 8 year car in her life. Many of us haven’t. Visiting a used carlot is not something that most privileged people have the stomach for. If her granddaughter ever tried to buy an 8 year old Chevy, she might not think it such a “cool” choice.
That's the car???????
this car is supposed to raise eyebrows? At USC? As Johnny McEnroe would say, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Understanding is a virtue, hard to come by"
J. Airplane
You'd get laughed at in ANY PAC-10 school. Maybe a HOT ride in South Bend though...
(back seat can hold a dozen altar boys)
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
A 1996 Chevy Impala!
According to Yahoo, the car was purchased in “Spring 2005” for $13,000.
According to the NCAA COI report, the car was purchased in December 2004 for $15,000 to $16,000. Note that the NCAA initially determined from Lake that the car was purchased in Feb 2005.
There is agreement in all reports that additional modifications, including rims, a stereo, alarm system were added that substantially increased the investment in the car, but which would not have necessarily been visible to an observer.
Like all tales, it appears to have grown taller over time. Every time Lake tells it, the car is purchased sooner and at greater cost.
Meanwhile, Cecil Newton is driving around in a new truck, and the NCAA is not doing a single thing different about it than USC did with Bush and his used Chevy.
Not to mention that the church is fixed too.
"Understanding is a virtue, hard to come by"
J. Airplane
There is agreement in all reports that additional modifications, including rims, a stereo, alarm system were added that substantially increased the investment in the car, but which would not have necessarily been visible to an observer.
However, there is no agreement about when the modifications were carried out. The nauseating “pimped out” ride on the cover of the magazine was not the car of early 2005. The invisible “modifications” may have included a tune-up and new brake pads, but when they want to lynch you, they just lynch you.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?
by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 17, 2010 2:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
If you want to see fancy cars, the COI should look in Tuscaloosa
Bama Football Players’ Custom Cars
Mark Ingram, MI-22’s brand new Tahoe
Dre Kirkpatrick, nice custom paint job
Dre’s Moms, momma needs a new pair of….ummm, uhhh, a new Caddie
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
The '96 Impala doesn't really compare, does it?
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Yes but not every school gets hammered by the NCAA
for them — or has a national championship stripped because of the date of acquiring said car.
Those cars don't draw any attention, LOL
you know the motto of the sec, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again
Let's face it...
Nothing USC did would have even been a violation in the SEC. On the other hand, if USC had given Bush $180 to come to USC, they wouldn’t get off probation until 2030. But I have to admit, Auburn’s green light lookis nice on my Christmas tree.
Different rules for different teams. In USC’s case, the sanctions are parially a consequence of whipping “anybody, anywhere”. Mike Garrett was right.
Fight on, Trojans!
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