Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Two Minutes Of Thunder Basketball Wins The Game

Pathetic...

Praising Slick Rick as the best UCLA recruiter ever, and then blaming it all on the "high" academic standards.

Sounds like all the other apologists.

The only thing he seems to get is all the talk about most of the titles UCLA has won has come from non-revenue sports. SUre they have hoops but nothing in football.....unless you want to count the split title form the 50's.

More will jump off the bandwagon...

over 1 year ago Images_tiny Paragon SC 26 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Conquest Chronicles

Do they miss him yet?

Oct 2010 by Paragon SC - 22 comments

Around SB Nation

Comments

Display:

Imagine if they took away his helicopter :-/ Punting is winning!

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 14, 2010 3:35 PM PST reply actions  

Throwing kids under a bus!

You know, there are MANY things that separate a Trojan from a Bruin. Never, in a million years would I ever hope to read any Trojan refer to another fellow Trojan as bringing “dishonor” in playing the game of football (one who was injured no less, and one who GAVE HIS ALL on the field of play. What the author and/or Dummit-Bruin has characterized QB’s Prince and Brehaut as being) while still in uniform.

Worse yet, they (Krikorian and Dummit) refer to some other anonymous Bruin football players as “miscreants”. What. The. Fuck?

I’m not the best person in the world, and in no means am I saying that Trojans are fundamentally or sensibly BETTER than Bruins, but good Lord! Unless a Trojan has brought upon himself or our beloved university in some degree of ill-repute (yes, like OJ Simpson, or Reggie Bush? I’m not saying “I” would say those things, but I can see how other Trojans might want to)- I will never say such things about kids sporting the Cardinal and Gold colors in competition. I mean. . . . . ? Am I missing something here?

I want to know what our fellow Bruins who frequent here on CC think of this Krikorian piece.

As far as the Bruin who is highlighted in this article: ex-Bruin QB Dennis Dummit? Let’s just say his name (if he referred to Brehaut and Prince this way, and why Krikorian wrote down as such) fits him well.

Fight On Bruins! There’s always next year.

"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)

by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 14, 2010 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

Ah… Bix? As evidenced in that piece, most bruins don’t Fight On!
Stab On! That sounds more like it.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 14, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey Loc, speaking of "stabbing on". . .and the theme of your newest moniker:

Did you hear the latest regarding Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi? From what I gather, looks like his right-hand man is stabbing the fuck outta his back in trying to get him ousted through a “no confidence” vote. The Italian papers are calling it a “classic tragic tale in the vein of Julius Ceasar” and the drama which unfolded which led to his assassination. Literally, a stab in the back fo’ shizzle!

Your “stab on” just got me to thinking and well. . . . . .?

Hope you’re doing well Maestro.

"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)

by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 14, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Berlusconi, Il Cavaliere!

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 14, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Is there any truth to the rumor...

that they are changing their cheer from the “8-clap” to the “8-stab”?

by CPEM on Dec 15, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you're mistaken, at least in part

He doesn’t attack the high academic standards. He specifically says:

I really believe the problem with UCLA football can be traced to the UCLA culture," he says. "The president wants the school to be known for its academics, not its football team. "You think that’s the case at places like Florida, Alabama, Texas, LSU and many other schools renowned for their football programs. UCLA receives more student applications than any university in America.
“That’s nice, and I’m sure they’re prouder of that than anything the football team could accomplish. “I know when you bring up athletics, they hang their hat on the fact that UCLA has won more NCAA titles than any other school. Now I’m not going to put down water polo, or volleyball, but many of those titles came in those sports.”

Dummit says UCLA simply isn’t willing to spend the money needed to lure quality assistants to Westwood, and it’s his feeling that there are some on Neuheisel’s staff who wouldn’t be there if this wasn’t the case.

This is not a complaint that the adminstration’s high academics tandards for recruits is the problem. Instead, he (correctly IMHO) identifies the problem: the culture at UCLA does not value football highly enough to do what is necessary to make UCLA a contender for a title. High academic standards is an aspect of the culture, but he does not claim that the standards are the reason or even a reason for UCLA’s continued suckitude. I think he somewhat off-base complaining about the need for quality assistants when we have at least one, but he is absolutely, 100% correct in general regarding the pay for coaches at UCLA. We aren’t paying Neuheisel very much, and in college football, as in life, you generally get what you pay for. We pay big $ to Howland, and although we’ve been down the past two years, its pretty tough to do better than he has. We pay for a coaching retread, we get mediocre (or worse) results. If the adminstration was as heavily invested in creating and maintaining a highly successful football program, we would go out and pay top dollar for a head coach and assistants, not to mention at least make our eligibility requirements the equivalent of Cal.

by ucladj89 on Dec 15, 2010 9:08 AM PST reply actions  

I'm pretty certain Paragon gets the gist of the article

But what he’s thinking (as well as many other Trojans) is “the excuses”. And they are numerous and varied as it applies to both Ucla academic standards/excellence as well as athletic performance/recruiting. Yes, all of which I’ve mentioned are different and some- mutually exclusive to one another. And that’s just Para’s point, I’m thinking: All the public ever hears about when it comes to Ucla and the problems persistent in athletic recruiting and academic retention is: money and standards.

Look, Ucla is faced with ALL SCHOOLS are faced with- money and standards. Yes, even good ol’ USC and Stanford- private schools competing with public schools for research and academic dollars. Both from the private sector and government sector.

But in Para’s post- he remarks about Neuheisel and so his comments should be seen in an athletic light. That he didn’t spell out the jump from Krikorian’s piece to Neuheisel’s schpiel shouldn’t be lost on anyone.

Neuheisel takes in just as many ‘tweeners as the next coach, and if he must- he’ll get his recruits into Westwood as special admits.

Para’s beef: WHY BRING UP STANDARDS IN THE FIRST PLACE? Everyone’s got them and everyone will and can do what they can to obtain/retain the recruits to build each’s respective program.

And I think that’s all he meant?

"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)

by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 15, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice try dj! Just don’t make yourselves out to be Stanford. You’re accepting JuCo transfers just like everybody else. Furthermore, Neushizel (despite the “high academic standards”) has been able admit a significant number of veritable morons like Carroll, Presley, Craft, et.al.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 15, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

take it easy Agrippa

let’s not toss any strawmen out ,shall we? I never suggested we were Stanford or even had the same academic standards. I’m saying that the interviewee makes the accurate point that UCLA has a culture that places a high academic reputation over felding a powerhouse football team, a proposition that I would have imagined was rather self-evident given UCLA’s long history of not paying for top coaching talent, never making any kind of push for an on-campus stadium, crappy practice facilities and the rest. I should think it rather obvious that UCLA’s adminstration simply does not value football as much as the academic reputation of the school, which they obviously believe would suffer if UCLA did have a big powerhouse football program. Now, that may not be true, or reasonable, but it does appear to be the adminstration’s belief, and from the interviewee’s perspective (a perspective which exactly mirrors the perception of many if not all of my fellow alums), it is hardly an unreasonable conclusion.

As for the issue of academic standards, obviously Neu can get special admits into the program. The question is not whether UCLA can get certain kids in (it has, it does and it will continue to do so.) The question is whether it does so at a rate less than the other teams in the league or is not permitted to bring in certain players for academic reasons that are admitted into other schools in the conference. Cal regularly admits kids who cannot get into UCLA because Cal has different standards than UCLA-remember Desean Jackson? Ultimately, the failure of UCLA to be competetive this past decade is not because of our oh-so-rigorous academic standards (sarcasm intended), but the failure of the AD and the adminstration to get serious about football.

by ucladj89 on Dec 15, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

From a Trojan perspective

I think Dan Guerrero is serious about football, c’mon! Why are we even discussing this?

You guys like to compete, and with all the Nat’l Championships- you cannot say your AD and the President of Ucla doesn’t want to or like to compete. Especially head to head against USC!!!!

USC is and always will be a football school. What hampers Dan Guerrero is not the will to pay for a top-flight coaching staff (you guys had THE Coaching Ninjas: Neu, Chow, and Walker)- it’s his compulsion for hiring former or ex-Bruins.

LA is a FEEDING GROUND for recruits to make it into the professional ranks in baseball, football, and basketball. Lately, hockey. The only state to rival Southern California (not even including NorCal) is Florida. The weather, the campus in Westwood, and the salary (at least back when Coach Neuheisel was hired) lends itself to a desirable position to take on. UCLA CAN be a major power in football, but it has nothing to do with academics or administrative restraint.

It has to do with hiring outside of the Bruin family. And that’s about it!

"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)

by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 15, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a stand up answer

What I just can’t understand is how or why you guys keep making this extraordinarily speculative statement:

I should think it rather obvious that UCLA’s adminstration simply does not value football as much as the academic reputation of the school, which they obviously believe would suffer if UCLA did have a big powerhouse football program.

In a university with a student population of over 30,000; how is it remotely possible that a clutch of about 40 “special admits” could possibly bring down its academic standards? That’s what Cal is doing and I think they’d argue vehemently with you about who’s academic standards are higher.
Is it true that ucla cares a lot about its academic reputation? YES
Is it true that ucla is cheap and doesn’t care about football? YES
Are the answers to those two questions related a bizarre inverse proportion? NO

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 15, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Couple of points

1) Minor point: you are including the graduate students into the student ppopulation figure you arrive at. IIRC, the undergrad population is about 20,000.
2) You ask why “we” keep making “this extraordinary speculative statement” in referring to the academic issue. The reason is obvious: the adminstration DOES believe that pushing for a pwoerhouse football program would compromise academic integrity. Personally, I agree that letting in more special admits would have no such effect, but it’s not my perception that matters, it’s the UCLA adminstration’s perception.
3) It’s hard to conclude, based on the evidence, that UCLA wants to have a great football team. We don’t pay for top-flight coaches (something that Dummitt alluded to in the interview.) We have weak practice facilities. We play our home games 30 some odd miles away from campus. We have an adminstration that Bix correctly described as interested in hiring ex-Bruins, which is code for “cheap.”
4) Having a top-flight program requries an investment in facilities and coaches. UCLA has not done so for a long time. It is hard for me to dispute Dummitt’s assertion, based on the evidence, that UCLA’s adminstration wants to make the necessary investment in building a great program. The obvious conclusion is that in an era when Cal can pay Tedford good money, invest in a significant upgrade to their home stadium and allow more special admits than UCLA without any detriment to their academic reputation, UCLA, for reasons that don’t seem very strong to me, is more interested in “protecting” its academic reputation and boasting about its competeitveness across a variety of sports than it is in building a good football program. That to me is not a whine about academic admissions standards but a complaint about the culture at UCLA, of which academic issues are but one facet.

by ucladj89 on Dec 15, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Not to argue the point dj but do you have a reference for this statement:

The reason is obvious: the adminstration DOES believe that pushing for a pwoerhouse football program would compromise academic integrity. Personally, I agree that letting in more special admits would have no such effect, but it’s not my perception that matters, it’s the UCLA adminstration’s perception.
I’ve never seen an official comment to the effect. Just wondering.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 15, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Of course no adminstrator is ever going to make such a comment

so I have no citation for you Agrippa. I make that statement based on the evidence, which I cited at length in my earlier post. I think realistically there’s only three possibilities: a) UCLA is too cheap and either can’t afford or won’t pay for facilities, coaching, etc. or b) the adminstration thinks, against the evidence of Cal, for example, that UCLA’s academic reputation is more important than having a good football program and the issues that arise from having a powerhouse football team are not worth the damage to the school; or c) a combination of both.

Dummitt touched on all these points in his interview when he complained about the UCLA culture, which covers all these issues. I agree.

by ucladj89 on Dec 16, 2010 7:03 AM PST up reply actions  

The evidence you cited can be interpreted in different ways. The ucla administration isn’t so unsophisticated as to believe there is some inverse proportion between academic excellence and football excellence.
If you apply Occam’s Razor only one of your possible answers is correct:

a) UCLA is too cheap and either can’t afford or won’t pay for facilities, coaching, etc.
BINGO!

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 16, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I would like to make it clear Mr great all mighty 89, ucla will never play in a BCS championship game as USC BB might never play in a ncaa BB championship game.

Oh and the answer to what you said about me and the instructors I know from your HS, well the real fact is that they choose to hang out with me but they had to put up with your ass. But don’t worry your great ucla has superior academics to USC oh wait you cats are dropping like your Powder Puff FB team. Keep on getting those highly ranked FB classes and Lose-On.

Lets face it the Bruins are superior in all aspects of life, heck I here they can wipe their Butts with their mind.

by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 16, 2010 3:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Off the meds again, eh old man?

It’s Christmas and in the spirit of the season, I charitably won’t address your drivel. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

by ucladj89 on Dec 16, 2010 7:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Funny thing you did and I don't take meds Jerk

Lets face it the Bruins are superior in all aspects of life, heck I here they can wipe their Butts with their mind.

by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 16, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Just a question and no malice intended...

do you know who pays for Rick’s membership to Bel Air Country Club?

"Understanding is a virtue, hard to come by"
J. Airplane

by gnossos on Dec 15, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't know

but the guy took a bundle off Washington and the NCAA, so he probably pays for it himself.

by ucladj89 on Dec 15, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

This is probably true. A bunch of ucla alums lobbied “The Club” pretty hard to accept him but that’s about all I’ve heard.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 15, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT

by DFWTrojan on Dec 15, 2010 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

I think we are all missing the point here

ucla just stinks at football. Sure they will have an up season here or there, but let’s be honest. ucla sucks.

by frak on Dec 15, 2010 5:38 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

There is a song that addresses that issue quite nicely...

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Dec 15, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Conquest Chronicles the SB Nation blog about the USC Trojans.

Community Guidelines

Managers

Images_small Paragon SC

Avatar2_small DC Trojan