USC Basketball sacrifices the present because of its misdeeds of the past...

by Paragon SC on Jan 4, 2010 4:46 AM PST in USC Basketball

The title of the post is pretty much what everyone else is saying in regards to USC's decision to self-impose sanctions on the basketball program.

Just a few general thoughts on this...

It is a pretty tough pill to swallow when you think about the kids who had absolutely nothing to do with this whole mess.

I have read a number of columns and articles that have stated that the team is shocked and dismayed at USC's decision to self-impose sanctions. As I said yesterday how did anyone not see this coming? Maybe because we hadn't heard anything about this for such a long time that people forgot this was out there.

I certainly don't accept that.

I do feel bad for our guys. They are left holding the bag for something that many of them weren't even around for. But how could they not know this was a possibility? If the team wasn't playing so good after all it went through after all of the events from over the summer would this be such a big deal to us? I still think the timing is perfect. Do it before the season and it barely would have registered...we all expected the team to have a rough go of things. Do it towards the end of the season when the team is on this run looks bad as well. People would have scream why now?! Doing it now sends a message to the NCAA, regardless of how late it is, that SC takes the apparent wrongdoing here seriously, determined there was an issue and punished itself for it.

Yes, it is a little like closing the barn door after the horses have already left but it is what it is. The NCAA can't go after Mayo, the only thing they could do to Floyd is to censure/ban him from the college coaching ranks...not likely. So until we hear from the NCAA...this is just the appetizer.

Mark Whicker has an interesting take...

Greater justice would be served by the removal of scholarships, and the Trojans did divest themselves of one scholarship in each of the next two seasons. That actually hurts the institution while leaving the current players alone.

And USC deserves these self-implemented slaps because of the concept of "institutional control." The NCAA's gendarmes can't be everywhere and the system, contradictory as it is, must rule itself. It was no secret Mayo was a mercenary and it was also no secret that Floyd was capable of moving the goalposts.
If a USC official had just said, "Uh, Tim, do you really think this is such a good idea?" that would have been a step toward institutional control.

The reason so many of us chuckle at all of this is because Mike Garrett had the audacity to video tape a message about things SC did wrong when he was is just as guilty as Floyd for allowing Guillory into the basketball offices.

Again, Garrett knew all about Guillory be cause of his involvement with the suspension of Jeff Trepangier. When Whicker says "If a USC official had just said, "Uh, Tim, do you really think this is such a good idea?" that would have been a step toward institutional control." He is talking directly to Garrett...

Mike Garrett had a personal hand in making sure that Mayo was "cleared" by the NCAA yet he never knew about Guillory? That is why this is such a joke. He could have simply told Tim Floyd a resounding NO!

I can see where Whicker is going in regards to reducing schollies instead of banning the team from post season play but the NCAA could and would do the very same thing so to me its a wash...it still affects the players negatively. One thing that does intrigue me is the labeling of Guillory as a booster. I am not an aficionado of the NCAA rule book so this is new one to me but it makes sense and makes it that much more of a bigger deal to me because once again the compliance office should have been more careful when Guillory slithered through the door with Mayo. The word "booster" seldom has a positive connotation when the term "Possible Sanctions" is mentioned. It also take the legs out of the argument many SC fans like to use when trying to defend the school that no boosters were involved. It may be on the fringe but it is not a loose interpretation.

When you look at this decision carefully it isn't really a bold move. Like I said you would have to be blind to not see this coming. That it happened now when the team is on hot run produces the desired effect as evidenced by the comments and stories I have read everywhere in the 18 hours. USC attempting to get out in front of this now is only to dull the thud of whatever the NCAA hands down.

It is pretty clear that all of this is meant to protect the football program but I am not sure if that is a realistic goal. Again, not surprising as this has always been what this is about.

Seeing how USC now has a taste for delivering up sacrificial lambs maybe the next best message SC could do as an offering to the gods is to show Joe McKnight the door. He may be innocent but notice we still haven't heard much more about that? It may be time to cut ties and move on...

Yes, I am being sarcastic...

For the most part.

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Damned if we do, damned if we don't

Ok, so let me get this straight? The writers, both here and around the US, wanna see the NCAA come down hard on an institution with no institutional control of it’s athletic programs, players, and coaches- yet, are totally bothered by the idea that the current basketball players have to be punished if USC penalizes their current season (as a way to mitigate any future harsh NCAA verdicts) by pro-actively punishing itself?

Uh, gee? Yeah people- HAVE IT BOTH WAYS! Freaking sanctimonious, vindictive bitches! (i’m speaking towards the media and the haters, no one here on CC, nor any of our true Trojan-faithful)

We’re gonna get punished, regardless by the NCAA. So, is it bothersome to people that we punish ourselves or is it bothersome because the NCAA didn’t/hasn’t done it themselves?

As a faithful Trojan, the phrase, “Being ‘good’, isn’t great enough” has new meaning to me. (dear Lord, how many haters live among us? i totally lost count!)

"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}

by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 4, 2010 6:12 AM PST reply actions

Paragon - to Sacrifice McKnight is Just

Paragon, a big issue with the basketball sanctions is that the current players are innocent yet they get punished. Saying good bye to McKnight would actually punish a player who is guilty – at least I believe he is. Making McKnight a sacrificial lamb for football would be a fair and just action.

by uscdude on Jan 4, 2010 7:15 AM PST reply actions

You know I was cooking the other day (18 months ago) and I think I left the oven on!

Fine the nearest cliff Mike Garret and put your car in Drive and step on the peddle.

by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 4, 2010 8:08 AM PST reply actions

The Ncaa rules are just plain stupid, but look who has put them together mostly the non-athelete

Ok I played tennis in college first at a JC then I was looking to transfer, I was in the top 20 ranking for open mens tennis players in So. Cal.. Because of the rule that when you start college as a full time student your eligibility starts (even if you play a sport or not), I went to a Naia program. Even though I was better than half the players on the Ucla and USC teams, I couldn’t play because of a rule that was only for mens sports.

See when I first started College I did so to stay out of the draft, I wanted to work after HS. So after I got a high lottery # in the first US draft lottery, I left college and worked full time. Five years later after I had been playing tennis and working, a friend of mine said lets go back and play for Cerritos College. Well JC rules differ from Ncaa D-1 rules and we were allowed to play, because we never went out for the sport. The Ncaa had different rules in all three divisions, and probably do to this day.

The Ncaa discriminates to age still to this day, even if you never went to college if you are over 25 you can’t play D-1. So if you go into the Military fight for your country and decide when you get out to use your GI bill you can’t play D-1 sports. You can play at D-2 or 3 level, what a crock of crap that rule is to this day. The people behind the rule committee are a bunch of Hypocritical jerks that most have never laced them up.

So I say Burn Down The Mission that is the NCAA.

Fine the nearest cliff Mike Garret and put your car in Drive and step on the peddle.

by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 4, 2010 9:05 AM PST reply actions

What if?

What if Coach O’Neill and the badass players on our current basketball had met their season’s expectations (up to this point, in time)?

Would we be feeling all sorry for the team as much as we seem to be, right now?

Just a question, ‘cause- I know I didn’t read any articles prior to this season being started where we were expected to be 2-0 in the Pac 10, especially with a major win over a team that’s partially fielding all the dregs that were allowed to leave their LOI’s with us to go over to the Arizona Wildcats. That Solomon Hill is quite a player! He was supposed to own Leo and Kid Euro?

"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}

by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 4, 2010 9:10 AM PST reply actions

I could see this team as solid even after the commits went to other programs.

I follow college BB more than FB, so I knew that state of the program under KO (a very good coach a little outspoken at times) and that it would compete. I also look at the other Pac-10 programs and knew they really didn’t have that much over USC, no way Sc was going to finish 9th. But I also felt there was no way USC ends up 1st but somewhere around 3-4-5-6, I knew that in Zonas case the D. Williams was the only player of impact as a freshman. Why because I saw him play a few times, and he wasn’t a jump around HS player. But It all has happen now and I guess it is time to SWEEP UP THE ASHES and start over. But in Starting over I would wish that USC leaves behind Mikey and his friends especially El Doucho Petros P.

Fine the nearest cliff Mike Garret and put your car in Drive and step on the peddle.

by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 4, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions

Guillory a Booster, Lake/Michaels Not Boosters

Great post, Para. We should not gripe too much about the postseason loss. NCAA sanctions frequently punish the current squad for program sins of the past. Unfair but standard operating procedure. I also do not buy into the “sacrificed basketball to save football” argument. Most of the MSM and commenters on their sites are really quite ignorant as to the details of the USC situation.

Apparently, the NCAA defines a booster as anyone who assists in the recruitment of a player. So, Guillory is a booster. But, Lake and Michaels are not. They are agents. Thus, I think that any football sanctions will be much less severe, unless there is any more evidence out there of which we are currently unaware.

And, I agree wholeheartedly that Garrett is as much to blame as Timmy. Actually, I believe his is more to blame. A coach doesn’t have time to conduct investigations and background checks. That is the job of Garrett and the compliance staff. And, they should have had Guillory very high on their radar. They failed.

by DFWTrojan on Jan 4, 2010 10:03 AM PST reply actions

As much as it pains me to watch them play elsewhere and I will always root for them to fail...

I am glad that Garrett let those kids out of their LOI’s. And I wish that any of the players on the team could have left. It is a sham that players get locked into the University, yet the coach can just lie and manipulate and leave on a whim. Garrett letting the kids go where they would be comfortable is one of the most stand-up things in d-1 hoops this year.
The LOI is a total crock of crap anyways. There is NO BENEFIT to the athlete. They get locked into the school, yet the school only owes them a scholarship for ONE YEAR. And if things change, the kid can’t transfer without the schools permission.
Yet another example of the criminal enterprise that is the NCAA.

At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.

by TrojanCBB on Jan 4, 2010 10:03 AM PST reply actions

I disagree

Colleges invest hundreds of thousands, even millions, in the recruiting of prospects and marketing of the team. You cannot run a profitable sports program if you allow the assets that you have invested so heavily in to walk away upon hearing the Internet rumor du jour.

These kids need to remember that they are supposed to be student/athletes first and foremost. They should choose a school for a multitude of reasons beyond the head coach. If they have no interest in the school itself, then they should go play in Europe for a year. Hill, Williams, Momo, and Noel would all be better off if they had stayed at USC. Better education, better coaching, and better alumni network.

At the very least, Garrett should have required them to stay until they met with the new coach, and then, excluded them from signing with a PacX competitor. You can’t run a profitable business if your assets are free to blow away in the wind. Big money college sports would implode if LOIs were non-binding.

by DFWTrojan on Jan 4, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions

I couldn't disagree more. And apparently it was a lot more than an internet rumor dujour wasn't it?

Well here’s the deal, you can’t call them assets and run the NCAA like a business if you are going to then require them to be “Amateur Student Athletes.” That is hypocritical. Now that the players are assets and not students, and now that college sports is a billion dollar industry, the rules are going to have to change. Plain and simple.

These kids are coming to USC to play for a coach who has repeatedly promised them that he is not going anywhere and that under him they will grow and excel. Then said coach flies off to Arizona for an interview, then quits under a cloud. They should be able to leave.

And I do hope that EVERY star athlete goes to Europe until the NBA wises up and creates an academy system. Then the college programs can go back to true amateurism.

At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.

by TrojanCBB on Jan 4, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions