A critical look into UW loss
After fuming the whole weekend, I finally decided to put my thoughts together. I posted few comments on WeAreSC.com forum, but I want to present a comprehensive look into UW debacle and the negative vibe around the program. A healthy critique never hurts, especially coming from a big time fan.
I won't get into how much I love what Pete has done for the program and accomplishments. Yes, 118 other programs would die to have this kind of success. But this loss really hurts. I got over Texas loss fairly quickly. I even somewhat got over losses to Oregon and 2 losses to Oregon State. But a loss to UW, UCLA and Stanford really hurt. It really hurts to lose to a program that has no business of being within 21 points if the talent on SC's roster is properly developed and utlized. I can understand losing to Ohio State, Cal or even Notre Dame (EDIT: to clarify, I am talking about 2009 Cal, OSU or ND, not 2001 or 2003 Cal). But not UW nor 2006 UCLA nor 2007 Stanford.
Let's not forget, Bobby Bowden also had tremendous success in 1990s. But FSU's inability to maintain discipline and develop players (despite playing in weak ACC and Florida being mediocre in early 2000s) eventually led to a freefall.
My main "fuming" points are as follows:
1. PC's stubborn decision to ignore special teams recruiting. Year after year, the special teams remains a problem. True, PC hired a special teams coach. But Schneider can't make a weak punters leg stronger. SC lucked out with Buehler, but aside from Buehler, we didn't have an impact kicker or punter forever. Danelo (RIP) wasn't a game changer, none of the current kickers are, and O'Malley is simply atrocious. You can check the punting average across the nation here. Well, what's the solution? You don't have to go far - look across the town. UCLA recruited their current kicker (Forbath) when another excellent kicker (Medlock) was approaching the end of his outstanding college career. Their current punter (Locke) was recruited as another solid punter (Perez, who was impactful during the 13-9 upset) was an upperclassman. There is no reason Pete can't plan out succession plans for kicking, long snapping and punting positions. It's very simple - recruit an elite specialist once in 4 years and if it means 1 less all-american RB, so be it. Matt Darr is coming next year, but it won't help our miserable punting average this year.
If anyone can name more atrocious punting in the Pac-10, please point me to that program.
2. Failure to clean up the penalties. Year after year, SC remains one of the most undisciplined teams in the country. What hurts the most, the penalties come at the worst time possible. With all the talent we have on the roster, it would not hurt one bit to bench anyone for a stupid, undisciplined play. Mindless penalties are becoming an important factor with struggling offense
3. Program's founding stones are becoming empty slogans. How many times we've heard about "it's all about the ball", "Competition Tuesday", "Turnover Wednesday"? Unfortunately, this is becoming nothing but a empty slogan. Prove me Pete, that it's all about the ball. Bench McKnight, Bench Stafor like you benched CJ Gable. If it's all about the competition, where are the practice and spring football all-americans during the gameday?
Paragon summed it up nicely:
I Love PC but I am tired of hearing how great guys do in practice only to see them languish on the bench.
If they are so damn good then get them into the game!
Pete had no problem saying that Flournoy (sic?) needed to learn the playbook or that Mustain is behind the others QB's in his development so why not tell us why the other guys are not cutting it?
Of course that opens up a whole other Pandora's Box...if they aren't that good they why did we recruit them...
Just my .02
4. Offensive talent development. I have no problem with what we're getting out of the guys on the defensive side. If you need a proof, check the NFL box scores from last weekend and see how dominant our x-defensive players are as 1st and 2nd year rookies (LoJack, Cushing, Maualuga, Rivers, TT). However, besides the OL, the talent development for WR, TE, and QB position leaves a lot of room for improvement. The RB position is hard to judge because none of the RBs gets sufficient amounty of carries.
But lets focus on WR position. Looking at the WR position I see a fair amount of highly recruited WR's on our roster (I am not even mentioning VH who left for Cincy). However, none of them became impact players ala DeSean Jackson, Percy Harvin, Julio Jones, A. Benn, Michael Floyd or AJ Green. Moreover, the guys who got away (Adams to Arkansas, Charles to UGa, Jeffrey to SCar) are becoming impact players as true or RS freshmen. What's the matter?
Here is an interesting take from GarryP at WeAreSC:
Q: Garry, since you mentioned that plenty of receivers were recruited ahead of guys like James Johnson [UW WR who led the team in receptions last weekend - anh_sc79] and also considering the fact that guys who got away like Orson Charles, Adams (Ark), Julio Jones, DeSean Jackson, AJ GReen, Percy Harvin, A. Benn become instant difference makes, is it fair to say that talent development (or proper utilization) at WR position hasn't been great since Steve Smith / Jarrett era?
A: This year will tell a lot about WR development, no doubt about that. Last year we got away with a trio of Damian, RoJo and PT as Patrick may not have been the All-American some predicted he would be but he did have a solid SC career. RoJo has developed into a nice threat but the shoulder injury has really been a blow to the team so far. I think Damian is our most polished, all-around receiver since Steve Smith.
That leaves a lot of guys who have been on the roster for a while and should be ready to go. Ausberry, Patterson, Butler, Carswell, Cameron. So far the results from this group have been minimal and you can point to play calling, inexperienced QB, game situations, etc as reasons for that so far this season. At some point, however, you need to look at players who have been in the system and expect them to perform. If they don't, then it is time for some questioning as to why that isn't happening.
What about Blake Ayles as a #1 TE?
Now lets touch the most contentious issue - the QB position. Behind Matt Barkley we have 2 5 star recruits (Aaron Corp, Mitch Mustain) and a solid HS QB in Garrett Green. If Aaron Corp's performance last week is any indication of his development, I must ask the coaching staff: "What the hell have you guys been doing all this time with the super recruits"? I don't buy the inexperience factor. Jevan Sneed, Ryan Mallett, Tate Forcier, Tim Tebow, Tony Pike, Taylor Potts - the list goes on and on - are perfect examples of what talented QB mentors do with solid talent within short period of time. The lack of QB development totally falls on coaching staff. I always been an advocate of inserting backups early in blow outs. Yet our 1st string QB always remains in until the end of the 3rd quarter. The backups never get meaningful time to test themselves in the real game situation. Some may say, that Aaron Corp doesn't fit our system or he simply sucks. To first group, tell me why Aaron was recruited if he never fit? To the second group, I am going to point to GarryP's article on WeAreSC:
Quarterback Matt Barkley, fresh off leading a dramatic last minute drive last week, was also sidelined with a shoulder that simply wasn't ready to go. In his place, we entered the game with Aaron Corp. Not to worry, I thought, as up until a few weeks ago Corp was scheduled to be our starter and he would surely take advantage of his opportunity to show what he is made of. That didn't turn out to be the case. I've had a chance to cover Aaron Corp a lot over the years, primarily during his career at Orange Lutheran, and the player we saw yesterday did not resemble the guy I've seen in the past. Aaron Corp is a good quarterback folks. It's just a shame this might be the game people remember him by because it was clearly not his best effort. He seemed timid, unsure of himself and he made some poor decisions. That is not the player who was named California State Player of the Year. Again, I don't know what went wrong but it certainly did go wrong for Aaron on this day. In fact, his 110 passing yards were the lowest performance by a quarterback in the Pete Carroll era.
Which brings me to the next point
5. Playcalling needs to improve. I know some of you don't agree with me here. Paragon wrote that "playcalling is overrated", but I respectfully disagree. I firmly believe that playcalling must adjust to certain players strengths and weaknesses. It's hard to run a system that doesn't take advantage of what the player is capable of doing.
Aaron Corp will never have Matt Barkley's arm, but MB7 will never have AC15's mobility. I didn't see a single naked bootlet, no zone read options to take advantage of Aaron mobility. Not once did Bates called a deep throw downfield (put max protection if you are worried about a sack). The play calling is unimaginative with zero creativity.
You can only go so far with talent and poor playcalling. Several pundits and posters mentioned that a common denominator behind conservative playcalling by various OC's was Pete Carroll. I believe there is some merit to that. Play calling must be creative, not dumb. No one asks for a trick play on 4th and inches when you have a tall, strong QB behind All American OL, just sneak it. But once in a while, use an end around, reverse, flea flicker... Keep defenses honest.
Pete needs to let an experience college OC run his offense. Note I said college OC, not any OC. NFL offensive strategy is built on assumption that the other team is equally talented (more or less - at least the difference between the Steelers and the Lions is not as big as the difference between Florida and Florida International). That's not the case in college. Look what experienced OC such as Gus Malzahn did to Auburn's pathetic offense.
UW's defense is no 1984 Chicago Bears. Nate Enderle of Idaho passed for a lot of yards just a week ago. I watched the game and you can go vertical (or deep) on them. Especially when you have a 6"4 WR on a 5"9 true freshman. Play to win, not to prevent a loss.
This loss hurts. For the first time in the last 5-6 years the Trojans didn't serve crow to a trash talker. Every pundit on earth put the Trojans on the upset alert and yet we blew it. It pains me to say, but we lost a race with a full garage of Ferrari's to a 1970 VW bug.
Some things must change to avoid this crap again in future.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors.
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63 comments
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Comments
It's not complicated
Without the three turnovers deep in Washington territory, the Trojans win an undramatic game by a comfortable margin. That’s why your point #3 is the strongest. What happened to the stellar turnover ratios of Carroll’s first five seasons?!
by CrazyTrojan on Sep 21, 2009 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
About AC he is a good kid but doesn't seem like a big leader, kind of quiet.
But That can still work out for anyone but as I remember knowing a few QBs in my day they usually carry themselves very high. About his development yes the coaches should be doing this but the player also needs to work at it away from the team. I have played manny of sport and I really didn’t rely on coaches to make me better I had an everyday goal of getting better than the day before
This meant giving up a lot of personal time and it was very rewarding because I did it myself. I don’t know how AC approaches his life but I hope he has the same mind set. I have helped a few athletes during the years and not worried if I am getting paid for it. Just the thought of seeing someone who asked for help is enough for me.
If the young man gets to play this weekend I will pull for him and AC if they get 8 in the box, change the play and throw deep we know you can do it.
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 21, 2009 12:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree!
Fire Pete Carroll! He sucks. What has he ever done for the program!
What about Paul Hackett? I think he’d be a wonderful coach!
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 12:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Where did I suggest firing PC?
I pointed out few areas of improvement needed to get the max use of the talent that he has recruited. I also pointed out that Pete is second to none on defense.
Can you give me a fair critique of my arguments?
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know Zou very well, what I do know is. . .
. . . .he has a rather dry sense of humor. His sarcasm runs a close 2nd to frak’s, after mine.
He’s being sarcastic, AND funny. (I remember someone once wrote to him something to the effect that "maybe what you (Zoulou) want is for us to bring back Hackett, maybe Robinson II? Am I right, Zou?)
Fight On Zoulou! I’m out here in Texas and just started catching up on some CC reading. You’re on it brotha, and you have my attention. Don’t worry, it’s a good thing ;- )
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Sep 21, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're terribly spoiled
There’s more than 110 programs that would give their left nut to have what we have. The last thing we need is self inflicted douchbaggery Wolf style. There’s enough of if coming from the outside, check out this lovely bit from that bald @-hole Dodd:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/12237102
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I am not suggesting that we need to go undefeated every year
That’s why I never complained about 2007 Oregon loss against Dennis Dixon. Sure, we blew some chances in that game (4th and 1 call with McKnight etc), but in general Oregon was a great team with healthy Dixon.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I got that, but who would you prefer to lose to this year? Washington in an aberration or Cal in two weeks? If this group is capable of learning the lesson it’s better that they learn it now.
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind losing to Cal in a hard fought battle
Cal is a strong team with a veteran coach and Heisman candidate RB. Just like I had no problem losing to Oregon in 2007.
But losing to “bad” teams really hurts.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we lose to Cal we’ll be going to the Holiday Bowl at best. I don’t like San Diego that much.
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, no one likes Holiday Bowl
But going 11-1 with a close single loss to Cal gets you to a BCS championship game most of the time (assuming Cal has 2 decent losses)
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just agree
that we need to beat Cal in two weeks, deal?
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh for sure.
It’s do or die. And I promise I won’t be b*tching about a loss to Cal
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
you will understand if I do!
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah, i you'll went 11-1 with a loss to us, it's cause we
go 12-0. Roses for you and extra Roses for us.
but…sigh
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Sep 21, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but what is really better is when we beat cal the jerk world will experience a 9.0
they all will be a shaken and will be pulling there petros feet out of their mouths
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 21, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, the web address firepetecarroll.com is already taken. There’s money to be made off this and our program’s enemies are ready and waiting.
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh...
everyone wants to profit on someone else’s misery
by Paragon SC on Sep 21, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I have a few free moments
It really hurts to lose to a program that has no business of being within 21 points if the talent on SC’s roster is properly developed and utilized.
Yep, it is so improperly developed and utilized that we have won seven straight Pac 10 conference titles and qualified for seven straight BCS games.
I can understand losing to Ohio State, Cal or even Notre Dame.
Excuse me, but I seem to exist in an alternate universe. In my world, we have lost to Cal in 2003 in Leinart’s third start (and in double or triple overtime to boot). We lost to ND in 2001. We haven’t lost to OSU in decades.
But not UW nor 2006 UCLA nor 2007 Stanford.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 1:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Read carefully
Yep, it is so improperly developed and utilized that we have won seven straight Pac 10 conference titles and qualified for seven straight BCS games.
Did I say that none of the talent is developed and utilized properly?
I have no problem with what we’re getting out of the guys on the defensive side. If you need a proof, check the NFL box scores from last weekend and see how dominant our x-defensive players are as 1st and 2nd year rookies (LoJack, Cushing, Maualuga, Rivers, TT). However, besides the OL, the talent development for WR, TE, and QB position leaves a lot of room for improvement. The RB position is hard to judge because none of the RBs gets sufficient amounty of carries.
Tell me why WR from other schools that I have mentioned become impact players from day 1 yet most of our WR don’t make any noise on national level?
In my world, we have lost to Cal in 2003 in Leinart’s third start (and in double or triple overtime to boot). We lost to ND in 2001. We haven’t lost to OSU in decades. .
Cal 2003 is not much different than UW 2007. When I mentioned that I don’t mind losing to Cal, ND or OSU – I meant in 2009. Do you really believe that 2007 loss to Stanford would be no different than losing to tOSU in 2009 in Columbus?
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I tend to read what is written.
It’s a bad habit, i know, but being what it is, I have no idea what you meant, I can only respond to what you’ve written. If you meant 2009, then write that. But you did not.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edited for you.
But seems like you don’t read everything carefully (since I clearly mentioned talent development on the defensive side) anyways.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going point by point, son
In chronological order, if you haven’t noticed. I’ll get there.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clean up your language.
If you want to be respected and responded to.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, yeah Zoulou-
Don’t get me wrong, I have immense respect for your knowledge of USC athletic programs, it’s history and it’s philosophy. I truly do, but. . . .let’s not go down that ruinous road of disrespect and one up-manship. You do better than alright with your football acumen, put it to great use by respecting what’s written by others and challenging their opinion by honest questions and points without being so dismissive.
You’re a badass, my brotha. This Trojan and CC-usual knows it. I’m not one to tell people what to do, if you’re getting that from me right now- I apologize. I’m only trying to help out here with Trojans communicating with Trojans. That’s all.
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Sep 21, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More
But not UW nor 2006 UCLA nor 2007 Stanford.
Hey, that’s what happens when you have only 20 per week with teenagers who are juggling classes and girlfriends and whatever. That college players of USC and UCLA and Cal can do what they do, with every single moment of their day completely booked, I couldn’t do it. But maybe you could, because of your awesomeness. I bow before you.
Joe Paterno lost to Iowa last year. Fire him! Les Miles lost four games. Fire Him! OK State lost to an unranked Houston Fire him!
Let’s not forget, Bobby Bowden also had tremendous success in 1990s. But FSU’s inability to maintain discipline and develop players (despite playing in weak ACC and Florida being mediocre in early 2000s) eventually led to a freefall.
And the 80’s, don’t forget. But I understand what you are implying.
Special teams recruiting.
Billy O’Malley is pretty piss poor, true. But what did special teams have to do with loses in 2006, 2007 and 2008?
The closest special teams has had to losing a game? In 2004, when Tom Malone outkicked the coverage and UCLA scored on a punt return. BTW, he was a pretty good punter.
Mario Danelo was automatic within 40, and not bad up to 45. Since when in eight years have USC kickers ever been asked to be game changers? If you are asking your kickers to win games, you know what you are, you are UCLA in the Karl Dorrell era.
Year after year, SC remains one of the most undisciplined teams in the country. What hurts the most, the penalties come at the worst time possible.
Compare USC penalties for non-conference games versus conference games. Four penalties at Ohio Stadium with an non-Pac 10 crew working.
The 2009 Rose Bowl with a non Pac-10 crew, 6-60 vs 9-72 for those notoriously undiscplined Joe Paterno teams.
USC penalties always rise in conference play. Part of that is the way the Pac 10 calls games. BTW: If you love the Pac-10 refs, Bob Stoops would like to have a word with you.
Do you really believe that Everson Griffin’s roughing the passer penalty was because he was undisciplined. He’s coming at Locker full speed when Locker stops and the sideline then inbounds and tosses the ball to the ground then steps his right foot out of bounds. Maybe the refs had to call it, but to say it’s undisciplined is wrong.
How many times we’ve heard about “it’s all about the ball”, “Competition Tuesday”, “Turnover Wednesday”? Unfortunately, this is becoming nothing but a empty slogan. Prove me Pete, that it’s all about the ball. Bench McKnight, Bench Stafor like you benched CJ Gable. If it’s all about the competition, where are the practice and spring football all-americans during the gameday?
McKnight is McKnight. He fumbles, will always fumbles, will struggle at the next level because of his fumbles, but with a benched McKnight USC loses to Ohio State. He is, unfortnately, USC only real one-on-one playmaker.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No need to go personal
But maybe you could, because of your awesomeness. I bow before you.
No need to go personal. Keep it respectful
Joe Paterno lost to Iowa last year. Fire him! Les Miles lost four games. Fire Him! OK State lost to an unranked Houston Fire him!
Did you consider the difference in talent between USC / UW and compare it to the situations you mentioned? Was Jarrett Lee or Andrew Hatch highly recruited Gatorade All-Americans? Did LSU or Penn State have 8 NFLers on their defense?
Billy O’Malley is pretty piss poor, true. But what did special teams have to do with loses in 2006, 2007 and 2008?
The closest special teams has had to losing a game? In 2004, when Tom Malone outkicked the coverage and UCLA scored on a punt return. BTW, he was a pretty good punter.
Mario Danelo was automatic within 40, and not bad up to 45. Since when in eight years have USC kickers ever been asked to be game changers? If you are asking your kickers to win games, you know what you are, you are UCLA in the Karl Dorrell era.
So you think special teams have nothing to do with winning the game? How about Reggie Bush’s punt returns on special teams against OSU and Stanford in 2004? How about missed FG’s against Cal in 2003? How about punt return for a TD in 2006 vs Oregon State? Tell me that +20 yards in field position from a solid punter has less value than garbage time carries from a 5th string RB.
USC penalties always rise in conference play. Part of that is the way the Pac 10 calls games. BTW: If you love the Pac-10 refs, Bob Stoops would like to have a word with you.
Do you really believe that Everson Griffin’s roughing the passer penalty was because he was undisciplined. He’s coming at Locker full speed when Locker stops and the sideline then inbounds and tosses the ball to the ground then steps his right foot out of bounds. Maybe the refs had to call it, but to say it’s undisciplined is wrong.
How many times we’ve heard Pac-10 refs suck excuse? For the piss poor Everson Griffen call we got one back with sideline interference call. What about Spicers penalty (2nd year in a row)? How about numerous holding calls on the punt returns? Was it a conspiracy too?
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I read conspiracy
And UW got 9 penalties, and weak sideline interference call. They are so UNDISCIPLINED!
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You talking about the 20 hr rule when I played tennis in college team Practice was about 15-20 M-F
Then we we had weekends and usually played tournaments or school matches witch amounted to about 12-14 hr Sat -sun. The team played 40 matches and 10 school tournys, I personally worked out an extra 2-3 hrs a day m-f either working on a certain aspect of my game or running bleachers and sprints and or play basketball with the basketball team.
Luckily I pay attention in class and got threw with a 3.2 -3.5
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 21, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
… but we lost a race with a full garage of Ferrari’s to a 1970 VW bug.
Wow. I think your hyperbole-circuit is overloading! Even the most rosy-viewed Trojan fan I’ve met isn’t convinced this is the strongest SC team in PC’s time, and it seems that you’re really under-valuing UW. Yes, they went winless last year, but consider their injuries and a few other bad breaks, and the fact that they simply do not suck as much as people think, and the 0-12 team is not even close to this one.
Not that this wasn’t an upset, and that SC is the stronger team on paper than UW. But the idea that you should have had no problem with them is a bit silly.
Perhaps you lost a race with a few Corvettes going against a souped up Subaru WRX.
Mark it "8", Dude.
by SoCal Oski on Sep 21, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I dare you to name 1 UW player
that would start on the current USC team had he signed with the Trojans as a freshman. Please no “Locker would be a starter now at SC”. As a freshman.
Their leading WR wasn’t recruited. Polk signed with SC then went to UW.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have to rely on a lot of freshman,
You are not in the National Championship conversation. Period.
USC is, and has been since 2002, despite Dennis Dodd and all the other sky-is-falling chicken-shit-littles write.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether or not any UW player would have started for SC is immaterial here. My point isn’t a player-by-player comparison, or an analysis of the relative merits or the recruit ranking process. Merely that it seems far too many people are underestimating this UW team based on last year.
Look, as I said there is no doubt that SC is the more talented of the two and by all accounts and estimations were favored to win, and that UW beating the Trojans was an upset. But to mark this somehow as being on par with Ucla’s win in 06, or Furd’s win in 07 is kind of silly and more than a little dismissive of UW. These guys are not pushovers. They played toe-to-toe with LSU, and that doesn’t just come from emotion or some magic pixie dust.
I get your frustration at the loss, but I also just think (as an impartial observer) that you are either way over-estimating how good the Trojans are this year, or how bad UW is.
In any case, I’m sure your guys will get things sorted out next week.
Mark it "8", Dude.
by SoCal Oski on Sep 21, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this team isn't a tuned Ferrari they are very temperamental Cars
And 50% of our drivers are new thats always hard to control in fact the 15 car roled out the other day and before that rear left suspension arm cracked and the #7 car is all dented up.
I’m not going to get into the #2 and #9 they are just getting out of the body shop.
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 21, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More #3
Bench McKnight, Bench Stafor like you benched CJ Gable. If it’s all about the competition, where are the practice and spring football all-americans during the gameday?
Since when has Stafon disappointed. oh yeah, he fumbled last week. That’s it! If only this were the NFL, we could release him!
Behind Matt Barkley we have 2 5 star recruits (Aaron Corp, Mitch Mustain) and a solid HS QB in Garrett Green.
Because everyone knows that recruiting service rankings are never wrong. That’s why five star former #3 National QB recruit Jonathon Crompton is a Heisman contender, former five-star Notre Dame recruit James Aldridge is the best RB in the nation, former five star No. 1 QB recruit Ben Olsen set NCAA records, two/three star recruit Troy Polamalu and three-star recruit Josh Pinkard are compete wastes of scholarships. Oh, wait . . .
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh we are just so unlucky
For some reason we had a very unfortunate luck with 3 solid HS All-American QBs (Mustain, Corp, Green)….
And what a terrible luck with WRs… Carswell, Ausberry, Patterson, Butler, Flounroy…
You are giving individual examples. Show me a pattern at other programs where HS All-Americans at same position failed to develop.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AC’s star rating climbed to 4 stars when it got around that USC was recruiting him, when did he get 5 stars?
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to single out Corp
But recruiting services are NOTORIOUS for bumping the ratings of player when they are recruited by big schools.
Lemming was the worst offender. Ty Willingham’s ND recruiting classes were consistently top 20, because once a recruit committed to ND, he received an automatic star increase.
it’s a big reason why lemming is not taken as seriously anymore.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but a lot of players do pan out
Of the top 15 guys, I think everyone one of them was worth 5 stars. Some more than others, but not a bad assessment
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scout had him at 4 stars, they tend to be slightly more realistic. Rivals also ranked UCLA’s recruiting class higher than ours this year and statistically tied in 2008, they’re quite susceptible and/or part of the hype machine.
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And some, like James Wilson
Never see the field.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, one of 15?
Yet, you still didn’t explain why every other top-10 player from 2006 rivals class was successful, but we were so unlucky to get the scrubby 3.
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go
#3 ranked HS QB. California Player of the year. And I did watch him in his final game in the State Championship. Everyone said he was a much better QB than Jimmy Clausen.
If you want professional scout’s opinion, read GarryP’s take on Aaron
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is 2006 rankings from Rivals
For some reason, every other top-10 (make it top-13) player that didn’t end up at USC had a great college career. Is this another example of bad luck?
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go
- ranked HS QB. California Player of the year. And I did watch him in his final game in the State Championship. Everyone said he was a much better QB than Jimmy Clausen.
If you want professional scout’s opinion, read GarryP’s take on Aaron
by anh_sc79 on Sep 21, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll take Garry P's
Opinion on a USC recruit with the same grain of salt I take Tom Lemming’s opinion on a ND recruit.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garry P LOVES USC
and while I criticize WeAreSC, gotta love Garry P for his straight on, unabashed homerism and basic all-around decency. But he is an unabashed homer.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Next #4
Offensive talent development. . . .
But lets focus on WR position. . . .
Lets. DJ was a great college talent but a pro disappointment. Steve Smith solid all four years. PT had a solid college year then bulked himself up to make the Dolphins squad. DW dominated last year’s Rose Bowl and was a Pre-season All-American. RoJo seemed to on his way as well. And Fred Davis turned out pretty well, as USC’s first Mackey Award winner.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From Michael Lev's invaluable blog
Since the Wolfbag is primarily interested with snide comments and fey sarcasm and playing to the UCLA trolls:
Pete Carroll is the ultimate decision-maker in the USC football program, so if the offense is overly conservative, it’s his call.
But it isn’t as if Carroll doesn’t want to get the ball to the Trojans’ wide receivers.
"They’re not getting as much action as we want them to," Carroll said. "The ball’s not getting there. They just haven’t had enough chances.
"We’ve got to get the ball outside, spread things out and make it easier for the overall functioning of the offense. Meanwhile, we have to continue to develop the quarterbacks. There’s a process we have to work through. Hopefully, the defense will continued to keep us in the game."
Not exactly a ringing endorsement, eh?
Carroll also acknowledged missing receiver Ronald Johnson, who’s easily USC’s best deep threat. Johnson could return sometime next month from his broken clavicle.
Meantime, the receivers’ statistics so far reveal a lot.
The current top three — Damian Williams, David Ausberry and Brice Butler — have combined for 19 catches, 251 yards and zero touchdowns. Extrapolated over a 13-game season, that comes to 82 catches, 1,088 yards and, of course, no scores.
Last season’s top three — Williams, Johnson and Patrick Turner — combined for 140 receptions, 2,180 yards and 27 touchdowns.
Where have you gone, Mark Sanchez? Oh yeah, that’s right. New York. And you wonder why Carroll was so upset.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 2:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, where were the bubble screens we hated so much?
Oh yeah, AC told Bates (sitting on the sideline) he couldn’t throw that one.
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next #5
I didn’t see a single naked bootlet, no zone read options to take advantage of Aaron mobility. Not once did Bates called a deep throw downfield (put max protection if you are worried about a sack).
Yeah, where were the bubble screens we hated so much?
Oh yeah, AC told Bates (sitting on the sideline) he couldn’t throw that one.
I heard David Norrie talking about that situation, with Bates sitting down with Corp and going over the entire lamented game plan and asking Corp what he was comfortable running, yet I haven’t heard anything more about that.
Instead, the CW is 1.) Did Carroll undermine Corp’s confidence? Wolf set this up on his blog on Thursday, and I’m sure that he heard this from other people first because I don’t think Wolf is astute enough to pick that up himself. It was a pre-package narrative going into the game; and
2.) It’s all Pete fault. Yes, Pete took the blame because he is the one making $5 mil and the players aren’t and that’s what good college coaches do, they do not single out any one player. Also, it was the only possible media meme because there were only three possible memes:
a.) USC kills Washington: QB Controversy!
b.) USC wins close: Sark almost gets teacher, USC vulnerable
c.) Washington wins: All Pete’s fault.
Anyway, Harvey Hyde, during the Sunday morning 710-AM show, noted that bootlegs we’re difficult to call because Holt had the weakside end playing a naked bootleg every play. That’s difficult to see on TV, but he’s a pretty astute observer, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Zone read options: I’m not sure what you mean, but if it is what I think you mean, I don’t believe those plays are in USC’s playbook. Anf you don’t resign playbook in the middle of the season, especially in college when you have limited time with kids who are struggling to learn the playbook they gave them.
by Zoulou on Sep 21, 2009 6:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How about some simple play action?
How about Corp simply throwing to the open receiver rather than into double coverage?
by Paragon SC on Sep 21, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Carroll can take the blame all he wants...
But Corp is not as advertised….not after all we have heard about his poise, decision making and time in the system.
And I do remember that he did throw Corp under the bus a little from a comment on Wolf’s blog…
by Paragon SC on Sep 21, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reflections from an outsider
I think your no.1 and no. 4 points are interesting. Point no.1: Carroll seems to place a heavier emphasison quality O and D players, knowing that a program can get decent special teams play without having to recruit the best. I think there are trade offs to that philosophy, but USC really hasn’t paid too heavy a price IMHO so far, but it might feel the impact more this year with the O having some troubles getting the ball into the end zone.
As for point no. 4, UC has recruited very well at all positions on offense. All the kids at WR were top prospects. But simply because they are 5 star players is not a guarantee of achievement during college-they may lack the fire, grit, etc. What does seem reasonable to conclude is that the position coaching on O and the coordination isn’t as solid as that on D. For that, I think your prescription is correct-an experienced, successful coordinator would really help.
In the end, however, the simple adage applies-you can’t win them all. And while USC has lost in the past, it’s been a while since you had the kind of personnel losses you sustained this past year and growing pains are inevitable. USC will be fine, and while I fully get why you are ticked over the kinds of losses USC has experienced (how is it possible to win OOC games against all comers under every possible circumstance and still lose to some of these chumps in conference play?) but USC will be fine and in the ht as long as Carroll is around. But he does need to bring in a quality OC if he wants an immediate improvement; your current OC might be very good but it will take some time to see the results..
by ucladj89 on Sep 21, 2009 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree on all counts
The last time we had personnel losses like this we still had Matt Leinart at the controls, this year we weren’t so lucky. Things would be very different is MS had stayed.
Bates started learning the system along with Barkley, and it’s going to take some time for him to put his stamp on the offense. The guy is an accomplished QB’s coach and received rave reviews from Jay Cutler, so much so that it became a major bone of contention for Cutler when McDaniels decided to bring in his own guy. Bates will have Barkley in the Heisman discussion next year. We also need to give Morton some leeway, but if it doesn’t work out we should get Karl Dorrell to coach the receivers, haha!
We appreciate your sensible comments, you are a credit to the silent majority of right minded Bruins.
by Locoweed 1.1 on Sep 21, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harvey Hyde on Sunday said:
1.) The offense that USC runs was installed by Norm Chow in 2001, tweaked by Pete and Norm in 2002.
2.) Run by Lane Kiffin, who in 2005 had four years in the system, including one or two years are passing game coordinator;
3.) Run by Sark, in 2007 and 2008, and who played under Norm and had significant time with the offense before returning in 2005.
4.) Neither Morton or Bates have coached or played in a Norm Chow offense. Morton comes from New Orleans and Sean Payton, Bates is a Shanahan-Gruden guy.
Hyde then said that means that Pete has to spend time “coaching” the coaches, while Morton and Bates are still “learning” the system and trying to incorporate their ideas with Carroll’s, and a true freshman qb and another who should be running a run-option offense, and which leads to what you are watching on the field.
He also made the point that the offense will be significantly tweaked next year, even if Pete will never admit it. This year too many players returned - the entire O-Line, the entire backfield, the two top receivers - to make it necessary or desirable to re-vamp the offense, at least that’s what the coaches believed in the spring. In hindsight, that might turn out to be wrong, but hindsight is usually 20-20.
Pete’s a stubborn SOB, but with Damien Williams gone, Stafon, McKnight (please!), probably Gable (does he have eligibility left?), maybe Bradford (same, does he have eligibility left?), a lot of new skill position players, you might see a re-vamped offense, more along the Gruden-Shanahan style that Pete says he admires.
by Zoulou on Sep 22, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell I don't care if we lost saturday tomorrow is another day , brah.
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 21, 2009 8:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs














