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UPDATED...USC's use of football consultants questioned by the LA Times

Updated below the fold - P

The LAT has a story out this morning questioning USC's use of coaching consultants within the football program and how it could constitute a serious violation of NCAA rules..

I got wind that the LAT was working on this story last week from someone that I trust to be a very good source. Now I didn't get all the particulars, only that Pringle was working on a story about the football program and more possible violations.

But now that I have read it a few things stand out.

With cross pollination between the NFL and D-1 coaching communities this type of arrangement doesn't really surprise me at all and I am sure that it is done more than we know. That there is even a rule about does surprise me...guys are going to talk and share information. It is natural, especially if they have known each other from past coaching connections.

The wording of this article is intriguing as it tries to draw you in with the alleged violations. A lot of it is based on "if it can be proved" or "if he had" etc.

Star-divide

With what I have read it would appear that consultants can be used on temporary basis but cannot have contact with the players. 

Nowhere in the story does it say that either of the consultants mentioned had contact with ANY player. This would appear to be "coaching the coaches"...

The bylaws say teams may retain temporary consultants "to provide in-service training for the coaching staff, but no interaction with student-athletes is permitted."

So what's the problem?

The supposed "experts" consulted for this story had this to say...

But experts contacted by The Times said the type of assistance that Rodriguez described could constitute a serious violation.

"That's coaching," said J. Brent Clark, a onetime NCAA investigator who practices law in Oklahoma, when told of Rodriguez's statements.

 

More on Clark in a bit.

Did the so called experts have all the facts or just what the Times provided?

Earlier in the story it is stated why there are rules regarding consultants...

"The rules are designed to level the playing field for all institutions regardless of the size of their budgets. It would make no sense for the rich and powerful to be able to compensate coaches with NFL backgrounds outside the coaching-limitation rules."

OK...But what was Rodriguez compensated? Rodriguez states in the piece that his time consulting with Carroll was minimal. Didn't Charlie Weis have Bill Belechick consult with him on some ND football issues?

More important many knew that Alex Gibbs was brought into consult early on and no one raised the question then but now it is a big deal? What about Carl Smith? Was he considered a consultant too?

Once again the use of unnamed sources is the foundation of the story. Sources that don't have the balls to come forward because they are worried about "alienating" USC. Right, sounds like someone has another axe to grind but is too much of a wimp to stand up and be counted. This is essentially having your cake and eating it too...Stick it to USC behind their backs while still having access to USC to further your own agenda.

Of course the funny thing that stands out in this article is the one guy Pringle interviewed on the record, J. Brent Clark, has Oklahoma ties. He even wrote a book on Oklahoma football...like he doesn't have an agenda........Right.

The sensational aspect of this reporting is the only real news here. Pringle makes the attempt to attach this charge directly on Pete Carroll. Something that up to this point in all of the discussions in regards to the investigations that hasn't been done anywhere before. This smells of desperation, especially with many knowing about Alex Gibbs being retained early in PC's tenure at USC.

I am not even going to sweat this. With all the scrutiny that the football program has been under for the past 3 years I find it surprising that if this is a serious violation that it wasn't uncovered sooner. The NCAA has drug this out long enough...why? Because they have little or nothing. This would appear to be a last ditch effort to nail SC before the NCAA supposedly (as we have read in the past) should/would/could hand down their findings before the season starts.

When the NCAA finally puts something out that is official then I will worry about it...

 

UPDATE - Here is Pete Carroll's take on the allegation...

Carroll addressed the issue this morning, after a published report suggested that USC’s employment of Pete Rodriguez in that capacity was a possible violation of NCAA rules.

“We’ve documented it,” Carroll said. “The topic has just come up because there’s an article on it. We dealt with this thing way back when to do it properly and do it the right way.”

Carroll said Rodriguez was paid by the school but declined to discuss further details of the arrangement, which reportedly included Rodriguez attending practices, watching games and reporting back to Carroll.

“To get to the point where we could have a guy be a consultant and come and see us, we did all of the homework, went through compliance, did all of the steps that you have to to make sure it’s OK,” Carroll said. “The way we understood and interpreted it, we tried to do everything exactly the right way. And that’s it.”

I wish it was that easy. But I think if that is the case this will go away as much ado about nothing.

0 recs  |  Comment 13 comments |

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If this is the bomb that was to be dropped

I’m doubting that it will bear much fruit. Consultants? Give me a break.

by frak on Jul 30, 2009 7:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The lack of analysis in this article is frustrating

“That’s coaching,” said J. Brent Clark, a onetime NCAA investigator who practices law in Oklahoma, when told of Rodriguez’s statements.

What actions in these statements was Clark basing his conclusion on?

Here’s the relevant sections of the NCAA bylaws:

11.7.1.1.1 Countable Coach. An athletics department staff member must count against coaching limits as soon as the individual participates (in any manner) in the coaching of the intercollegiate team in practice, games or organized activities directly related to that sport, including any organized staff activity directly related to the sport.

11.7.1.1.1.4 Use of Outside Consultants. An institution may use or arrange for a temporary consultant to provide in-service training for the coaching staff, but no interaction with student-athletes is permitted unless the individual is counted against the applicable coaching limits. An outside consultant may not be involved in any on- or off-field or on- or off-court coaching activities (e.g., attending practices and meetings involving coaching activities, formulating game plans, analyzing video involving the institution’s or opponent’s team) without counting the consultant in the coaching limitations in that sport. (Adopted: 1/10/92, Revised: 3/10/04)

The bolded section above is of particular interest. Compare that with the similar, but not identical definition in another section below.

11.7.1.1.1.1 Noncoaching Activities. Institutional staff members involved in noncoaching activities (e.g., administrative assistants, academic counselors) do not count in the institution’s coaching limitations, provided such individuals are not identified as coaches, do not engage in any on- or off-field coaching activities (e.g., attending meetings involving coaching activities, analyzing video involving the institution’s or an opponent’s team), and are not involved in any off-campus recruitment of prospective student-athletes or scouting of opponents. A noncoaching staff member with sport-specific responsibilities may not participate with or observe student-athletes in the staff member’s sport who are engaged in nonorganized voluntary athletically related activities (e.g., pick-up games). (Adopted: 1/16/93, Revised: 1/10/95, 12/13/05, 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)

The standard is at least different for temporary consultants and for institutional staff members. Temporary consultants are not allowed to be involved in any on- or off-field coaching activities, while staff members are not allowed to engage in the same. The examples given for being involved include “attending practices and meetings involving coaching activities”, while the examples being given for engaging include just attending meetings involving coaching activities. Since the list of examples is broader for temporary consultants than for institutional staff members (setting aside the clarity issues resulting form the use of “and”) it’s not unreasonable to think that they intended for temporary consultants to be more restricted than staff members.

Without the parenthetical, I don’t think most people would have interpreted the bylaws to mean that attending a practice (especially for a school like USC with open practices) would constitute being involved in coaching activities, particularly when everything in the rest of the bylaws speaks to interaction with the players. With it there, though, that adds some surprising breadth to this restriction.

Now, the strictest possible reading of these bylaws would seem to prohibit anyone engaged in consulting (or academic counseling) from watching football games on television( or at least from watching them using a TiVo and rewinding to see a play), as there’s almost guaranteed to be a game with your team or an opponent worth watching on a given weekend, at least for BCS conference teams. Anyone capable of being hired as a consultant probably can’t help but analyze video when they watch it, so reading the restrictions that broadly doesn’t make much sense.

Nevertheless, these bylaws can certainly be read to prohibit a temporary consultant from even attending an open practice. Given the breadth of other activities which would be prohibited, that may not be what the NCAA attended, but without any other information, there could be something to this.

You mentioned the use of Alex Gibbs, but the last two sentences of this bylaw were not added until the revision on May 10, 2004, and it’s these sentences which really fleshed out these restrictions. If I recall correctly, that happened very early on, I think before 2004, when those activities would not have been prohibited.

by Boy Howdy on Jul 30, 2009 9:33 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Very nicely down

Paul D. Kelley

BN is a myopic site

by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 30, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just heard on the radio

Cowherd interviewed a reporter. He said that as long as the consultant didn’t interact with players, that this constitutes a secondary violation at best.

Pete Carroll commented briefly about this story at media day today. He said he ran the consultant through the compliance department and had very clear instructions on how to use the consultant within the NCAA rules. I’m really not too worried about this.

by frak on Jul 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well BN has already started there mess on this!

But what would they know about getting compliance for someone like this, you can surly tell they just suck.

Paul D. Kelley

BN is a myopic site

by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 30, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It is that simple.

What’s so complicated? Of course the shit’s gonna come: Neuheisel is a vengeful little twerp (my money is that someone form UCLA tipped off the NCAA), the NCAA is on the prowl, thanks to Tim Floyd, other fan bases are filled with glee ….

It’s simple because what I like about college football is the game itself, what I don’t is the “everyone cheats but my team” mentality . . . actually, what I don’t like is everything else: the insane fans, the partisan blogs, the NCAA-induced panics, moralizing MSM reporters . . . it makes college football so much less fun.

So I ignore all blogs except this one (which I mainly read now as a one stop USC shop) Wolf’s blog and the occasional peak at EDSBS, read MSM articles with a grain a salt, ignore most all commentary, no longer comment on blogs (except for the occasional post on CC when I feel like I have something to add, or Wolf’s blog when I feel ornery) and wait for game day. It’s really much, much more enjoyable that way.

by Zoulou on Jul 30, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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