The 2-for-1???
by Paragon SC on Feb 7, 2009 12:39 PM PST
in Recruiting
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PrintThere is a lot of chatter going on about the recruitment of 5'7" 160lb Roby Toma by both ucla and ND and how it may affected the commitment of Manti Te'o. I list his height and weight or the obvious reason...does anyone believe that this kid would have been recruited by any other major program if t were not for his strong relationship with Manti Te'o? Don't get me wrong, I like Army and Navy for what they stand for but lets not get carried away those programs aren't even on ucla's level.
There was the original post over on the OCR's USC blog about how Norm Chow is alleged to have said that he was OK if Te'o didn't go to ucla as long as he didn't go to USC.
That raised a few eyebrows.
If true I am not so much upset at the negative recruiting that Chow did against USC but more importantly is that Chow didn't fight harder to gain Te'o's commitment to ucla. To me that's just shameful. Here is a guy who supposedly hates to recruit but Slick Rick uses his LDS ties to go after those LDS players that ucla covets and he is more concerned about the kid not going to USC than he is about going to ucla.
Color me perplexed!
As for Toma it has been reported by Wolf that the ucla coaching staff allegedly ripped into Toma when they heard that Te'o wasn't coming to ucla. That Toba didn't sign the LOI from ucla at the same time that Te'o signed his from ND is telling. Toba is listed as a 3-star WR on Rivals that was recruited by lesser D-1 Programs except for ucla and ND. He is listed as 5'10" but I have read elsewhere that he is more like 5'7". At ucla there is no way this kid would have sen any action for a while and at ND he may not get off the scout team (even many on the ND boards are saying that).
I am not surprised if Slick Rick pulled this stunt, he has a history of breaking the rules. But I am a little surprised, though not that much, that Chawly "we have a decided schematic advantage" Weis would go down this road. Notre Dame always tries to claim that they are above this type of recruiting when in fact they are no different than any other program that is desperate to once again become relevant.
There are other rumors out there about how Te'o came to ND but to me its minutia. But the 2-for-1 deal that some think is going on here shows just how far some will go in football recruiting.There is nothing in the rules against this but it certainly feels dirty using one kid as bait to attract another, especially if the kid never would have been by the scholl in the first place.
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No problem with Norm
First, it’s classic hearsay. No one with personal knowledge knows if he did indeed say it, and if he did, in what kind of tone. Was he half-smiling, or was he demanding? There is a reason hearsay evidence is not admitted into evidence in Court. Because it is inherently unreliable.
And if Norm did say what he allegedly said, what else do you expect him to say: “I’m sorry you won’t come to UCLA but please attend our cross-town rival and help them extend their 21 century win streak against us to 12 out of the last 13 games.”? Negative recruiting happens.
The bigger story is the clear 2 for 1 that both UCLA and ND used. Right now, UCLA fans are in complete denial, but let’s face it, Rick did the same thing that Tim Floyd has been mocked for. What SC fans find amusing is the aggressive spinning happening on the UCLA boards. Murshed (Nestor), being a politico, is very good at spin; still, facts are stubborn things, and Rick pulled a move that if Carroll pulled, Murshed would written a 5000 word screed then petition the NCAA to impose the Death Penalty.
News flash UCLA fans: Rick plays to win, and sometimes shit like that is gonna happen. Welcome to big-time college football.
The ND side is going to to be even more interesting. Rumors abound that Te’o father is going to get a coaching position in with a local, South Bend JC. The post-signing date offer to Toma stinks even more than what Rick did. While the local South Bend press tends to be obsequious to ND, and the Chicago papers have other things to cover (five professional sports teams, three or four other NCAA programs — Northwestern, NIU, Illinois and DePaul in B-Ball, along with Illiinois’ wacky and corrupt politicians), the Honolulu papers dno’t have as much to do. It’s might be interesting dependiing on whehter the Honoluluy press decides to probe the signing.
Either way, Manti comes to ND with a cloud over his head. It’s not the best way to enter a program.
Yeah, Lil'Romeo.
I’ve harped about that in the past. Anyway, read this on Wolf’s blog"
At least Wednesday’s signing date held down the comments over the embarassing loss to UCLA at Pauley Pavilion. Or do people not care anyways?
We heard quite a few boosters expressed their displeasure, however, during the fat-cat recruiting dinner at the Galen Center.
Yea! People are starting to come around to my way of thinking. No more: “Well, he’s better than Bibby.” Every single coach in the Pac-10, the Big-10 and the Atlantic-10 is better than Bibby. Leave that weak sauce for the wearesc.com fanboys.
My prediction: If Floyd’s misses the tournament, he gets permission to apply for SEC job openings. If SC flatlines again next year, he’ll be gone.
The downside is that Mike Garrett gets to choose his replacement.
Yeah I agree with Zou
I don’t think its a big deal. It certainly seems that things were promised to ucla regarding te’o, and Te’o or Toma didn’t follow through with those promises. Do I blame ucla for getting angry? No. Do I blame Chow for saying he was alright with Te’o not committing to the bruins as long as he didn’t go to USC? No.
This is such a non-issue its funny that guys like that nestor fellow are so up in arms about it. Its pretty obvious that ucla tried to entice Te’o to come to Westwood by offering his best friend Toma a scholarship. When Te’o didn’t come it certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibility that people in Westwood would be upset that they used a scholly on a 5-7 WR that probably wont see the field.
Everyone engages in this kind of deal making. We do it, ND does it, and Neuheisel certainly doesn’t refrain from this type of thing.
I think it's hysterical that we're. . . . .
. . . .“Norm Chow” and “recruiting” in the same sentence!
2-fer’s eh? If it gets your man, it gets your man- right? But if it doesn’t? . . . . . . . . . . .
"I was INVERTED!" -Maverick in Top Gun
Hmm
Well I am a UCLA student so there may be a little bias here.
1) The poster of this article has every right to bring this up, even though USC had a similar incident with Lil’ Romeo. Especially because the poster also criticized that 2-for-1.
1a) There is a difference however; a football team has 85 scholarships, whereas a basketball team has 13 scholarships. So having one player who doesn’t really qualify for the team is less of an negative impact in football than in basketball.
1b) The other difference is that if Derozan leaves early, Floyd probably has to continue to waste a scholarship slot on Lil’Romeo (correct me if that is wrong). However, in football, leaving your Freshman or Sophomore year is extremely rare. So essentially we would have gotten 3 or 4 years of Tomo for 4 or 5 years of Te’o, whereas you only get 1 or 2 years of DeRozan for 4 or 5 years of Lil’Romeo.
2) Honestly, coaches are remembered for whether they win or not. Nobody cares about anything else.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the 2 for 1
I think what the question is here is how ucla treated Toma after Te’o decided to go somewhere else. Maybe Toma and Te’o pulled a fast one on ucla. If you believe the reports it appears that conversation between Te’o and Chow probably was Te’o informing Chow that the deal that they had agreed upon wasn’t going to happen. Chow’s response was that he was ok with it as long as Te’o didn’t commit to the Trojans. I’m speculating that the deal Te’o broke involved Toma. I could be wrong, but it fits the reported conversations.
If ucla did a 2 for 1 thats no big deal. If they crapped on the kid that was the lesser end of the deal because the better player didn’t hold up his end, then that’s just the risk you take engaging in this type of recruiting. There could be a wide variety of things that happened here between Te’o, Toma, and ucla, but overall its just big time recruiting, and big time football. Its nothing in the end.
Why the BN folks are so up in arms about the reports is beyond me. Unless of course they are denying that Toma was treated to a angry phone call courtesy of ucla.
What I'm curious about
is how this is remotely relevant to Scott Wolf. This issue has nothing to do with his beat, so I don’t think he’s credible.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 10, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
It involves Te'o
Which is a person that Trojan fans have an interest in reading about. Trojan fans also have an interest in what is going on across town. I also will admit that when the BN faithful go nuts over something that is really a non issue to most people, it makes me chuckle a bit.
Also
I don’t know what you’re implying about Wolf. Are you saying that he isn’t reporting the facts correctly, or that he is just making things up out of the blue. I don’t think Scott would outright lie about the Toma issue. He said he talked to sources that were close to the conversations that he described. I don’t think its out of line to question the source’s credibility, but why say Wolf isn’t credible? You have any basis for that claim?
It would be like Dohn reporting on Tim Floyd
The Toma issue really has little to do with USC. Wolf’s credibility is reliant on his sources’ credibility, and in a story like this that has little to do with his usual beat, I find it hard to believe he has knowledgeable sources. This just sounds like hearsay.
I don’t think the story has been corroborated anywhere (and this is the type of thing Dohn would definitely report), so I would tend to just ignore it.
by SuperBruinMan on Feb 11, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
Well I disagree with you on a few points
I disagree that this is far off the usual beat for Wolf. It involves Te’o, and Chow. Those are two people that USC fans are interested in reading about.
I do agree with you that Wolfs story relies on the credibility of his sources. Which he gave by name in one occasion. I don’t think the Chow source was named, but the angry phone call source was named. You can assign credibility to each of those sources, however, why not send an email to the guy in Hawaii for his side of the story. I don’t think you can call Scott not credible when all he said was that 2 people reported those 2 different conversations. I believe all Dohn did was report that ucla had not pulled Toma’s scholarship offer, which does not refute any of the stories that Scott wrote about.
Here is the guy that reported the Manti Te’o story in Hawaii, and the alleged deal with Toma.
Robert Kekaula
rkekaula@kitv.com <rkekaula@kitv.com>
Lil Romeo is No Toma
I don’t know why Romeo doesn’t just pay his way as a walk-on, but that being said, there is a world of difference between the two and Floyd is smart enough to know that. It has been reported that Romeo actively helps Floyd as a player recruiter. Romeo has added some glitz and glamor to the program. Romeo is a draw. In this day and age, it helps to have things in your program that make you stand out, and having a famous rap star on the team helps to sell the program to new recruits. We have a stellar recruiting class lined up for 2010, and at least part of that must be attributed to the Lil Romeo effect. Toma is nothing more than the modern day Rudy, and Notre Dame did not live up to its high moral standard by lying to and using the kid. Toma ain’t no Romeo.
Romeo wanted a scholarship because
walkons have more restrictions involving travel and other perks associated with NCAA basketball. I’m not sure what all the rules are, but I know that walkons have a whole different set of rules that apply to them. Romeo wanted to be treated like a scholarship athlete, thats why he demanded a scholly.
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