UCLA Hoops Records Another Loss
The season continues to get progressively worse for the UCLA Bruins, as they lost their sixth game of the season by 18 points to Mississippi State in the John R. Wooden Classic in Anaheim. The loss puts the Bruins in last place in the Pac-10. Can't say I'm too distraught right now.
Fight On!
about 2 years ago
Joey Kaufman
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yea
i watched the game and we looked horrible out there, don’t know how we can look decent against #1 kansas and get killed by the bulldogs.
oh well, life goes on
Intriguing to say the least...
Never thought I would see the day where the ucla faithful would hammer BH in the way they are. I mean he is the savior right? The next Wooden who got his dream job…
There is an interesting post up on BN that popped up in my feed reader calling out Howland’s style of recruiting. It aint pretty. My how the worm has turned…
Simply put, I never thought I would see the day…this was their savior.
Many have called BH’s Brand of basketball ugly and many ucla fans in the past have taken exception to that…to the point of some of the nastiest comments I have ever read when calling out BH’s detractors.
The problem is that many ucla fans continue to hold Wooden as the standard…never mind that it was over 30 years ago that ucla was that dominant. The game has changed and the players have changed. The era of instant gratification has made it much tougher for teams to set up dynasties like Wooden had.
That is part of the problem…trying to use past results as the standard for the present will make you a very disappointed fan. You can’t even use past results of the same era because college sports is constantly changing.
I got a kick out of reading that Wooden was embarrassed at what he saw last night.
Really? Did he say that? I bet Wooden is more understanding than some think. Wooden never had a bad loss right? Wooden never had trouble developing players right?
Many will point to BH getting to the Final Four three times as a sign of his greatness but the last time I checked the only banner that matters is the championship banner. Many ucla fans tried to use the excuse that it took Wooden 16 years before he went on his run…that is true, but in today’s game no one is interested in waiting even half that time to win a championship. BH has had some incredible players but he was not able to build on it. He got the “fantastic four” last year…2 are now gone and the other two haven’t done much.
Go figure…
Some ucla fans do not want to admit that players simply do not want to play Howland’s style of ball. Some ucla fans will also go to great lengths to protect BH when that charge comes out, but read no further than that post at BN…they are openly calling out his recruiting Scrubs vs Warriors* (*a term that I find offensive when used as a sports metaphor).
There is no question that BN did some fine work in developing DC, RW, AA1, AA2…etc but he has had some duds too.
The real head scratcher is that I never thought I would see the day where the ucla football program, that has never had national reputation, is getting more positive pub for “backing” into a bowl game while the hoops program is getting negative pub for an embarrassing loss with the coach (and savior) being called out for shoddy recruiting and poor coaching. BH is the class guy who is squeaky clean, while Slick Rick…well, you know.
Never thought I would see the day that I would ever defend BH…but just like Pete Carroll this season, sometimes you to get punched in the mouth to refocus.
Interesting times if you are not a ucla fan…even more interesting if you are!
hmmm
you write:
Some ucla fans do not want to admit that players simply do not want to play Howland’s style of ball.
Paragon, I know you’re having fun with this but you need to think a little more carefully before making that kind of statement. "Players don’t want to play Howland’s style of ball? Who, specifically? Players like Kevin Love? Jrue Holiday? Farmar? Afflalo? Collison? Love and Holiday came and both were national players of the year. The 2008 class was the no. 1 ranked class in the country, which of course now looks awfully overrated, but still. The 2009 class was a Top 10 class, too. Of the current kids who UCLA missed out on in recruiting, who declined the chance to come to Westwood because Howland’s style is boring?
Players will come to UCLA regardless of style because of the history, the current coach, the ability of Howland to prepare his players for the NBA, and the exposure on TV, since UCLA is still the marquee program on the West Coast. We look terrible right now for several reasons-I believe the primary ones are that we have only role players left in the senior class (everyone else is in the NBA) no junior class (Love was one and done, Stanback transferred) and the sophomore class is simply underperfoming to a degree that I thought impossible-Holiday and Gordon are gone, Morgan looks like he might be a decent contributor next year, Lee is inconsistent and Anderson is a bust at PG so far. The freshmen have talent-Honeycutt and Nelson will be very good-but the others aren’t imapct players. We have no great shooters and only Lee can create his own shot. That’s a recipe for disaster-and that’s what we’re getting.
Howland deserves “blame” for recruiting these kids-my personal opinion is that his recruiting has changed as he has become more successful, and he has gone after more highly ranked recruits rather than looking harder for those workaholic, competitive kids with character. He took Russell Westbrook, who wasn’t even a four star recruit IIRC, and although Farmar and Afflalo were solid recruits, they were not elite recruits like Holiday or Love. Howland needs to do a better job recruiting-he needs to be better at identifying those kids who will thrive under his tutelage even if they don’t necessarily come in with all the hype. Collison was a 4 star, Farmar was a 4-star, you get the idea.
People calling for him to be fired are simply insane. Nestor and Bruins Nation are idiots, although there are some reasonable criticisms packed into the idiocy (ya gotta dig, but its there.) UCLA only hangs banners, but that doesn’t mean we have taken leave of our senses by believing that coaching three teams to the FF is not a big deal. UCLA’s first two FF teams were not great teams, although they were good and were well schooled. We were beat by a Florida team that posed all sorts of matchup problems for us, and for everyone else, too, since they won back-to-back titles. The last FF loss against Memphis is the one that hurts because I still believe we were better than Memphis and should have won that game, and our loss can be partially given to Howland for refusing to put Westbrook on Rose as a defensive assignment when it wa clear that Collison was getting destroyed by Rose. Of course, Rose, shouldn’t have been playing since he was ineligible…
UCLA being so young will almost certainly improve over the course of the year. I think we will miss the NCAA torurnament unless something wild happens in the Pac-10 tournament. But I’m not too worried about next year-one decent PG will change things around nicely.
Love and Holiday loved it so much that they left after one year…
Same with Drew Gordon.
Don’t agree that Howland should be fired…agreed that is insane.
I am not into Star Rankings they are hardly an accurate indicator. Holiday certainly didn’t impress with all the hype he came with, Gordon was a head case and you summed up Lee and Anderson.
Howland has done a pretty good job at developing talent not disagreeing with that but that post on BN was pretty correct…for every solid recruit he pulls in he gets a scrub maybe two.
Defined missed out…was ucla in the hunt for John Wall, Derek Rose (before the SAT allegations). I don’t know why players pick ucla and neither do you
Reading some of what you wrote reminds me of a number of complaints leveled against Pete Carroll. Howland is thick headed I guess…
You talked Match-up’s…Howland has been at ucla what 6-7years? I am surprised that he hasn’t been more complete in his recruiting to address some of those match-ups…I am surprised that he hasn’t set up a pipeline like we see other schools doo. How is it that the UNC’s Uconn’s, Cuse continue to grab top players and make solid showings while Howland for as great as he is hits and misses on recruiting classes?
Anyway, I am not “having fun with it” but I have read some pretty even tempered things on BN that are wondering some of the same things that I question.
Not that I what I think really matters…
response
When a player is going to be a lottery pick or first round pick, it takes a special mentality it seems to me for those players to return. UCLA has been hammered by early departures-some predictable (Love), some not so much (Farmar, Mbah a Moute.) When a program loses that kind of talent, early, it is hard to plug the holes. Holiday waited until the end of the declaration period before declaring for the draft-we might have been able to get Abdul Gaddy who was supposedly waiting to see what Holiday would do before committing but decided to go to Washington. There is no way Rose would have qualified for UCLA and he was never actively recruited (his Rivals list of interested schools does not even mention UCLA.) Kevin Durant was recently interviewed and he said he would have loved to play for UCLA, but he would never have made it through admissions, either. Howland has missed out on some players, but that’s not exaclty a surprise; no school, not even Carolina, gets everyone they want (they wanted Love REALLY bad.)
I’m not sure what you mean when you compare UCLA to UNC, Syracuse and UConn recruiting. Carolina admittedly has been off the charts since Roy took over, but even they had an 8-20 season under Doherty in 2003 IIRC, and UConn has been in the FF only once since 2004, Howland’s first year in Westwood. Syracuse has a long, notable record of failure in the NCAA tournament-and last year was their first trip to the NCAA tournament since 2006 (NIT in 2007 and 2008.) Other than the disaster of Howland’s first year, it’s been NCAA appearances each year and obviously the three FF.
That BN post discussing solids/scrubs-bear in mind that the senior class lost every highly talented kid to the NBA early. The kids who are left were not “scrubs” coming out of HS-Keefe was a McD All-America and all these kids can play. The problem is that there is no strong, natural leadership out of the senior class and there is NO junior class (Love left early and Stanback transferred.) The sophs look like an overrated class in general-I am not seeing too many great sophs around the country, let alone at UCLA.
As I wrote, Howland has missed some targets and he has recruited some kids who just aren’t going to amount to much. There are many reasons for that, not least is that recruiting is an inexact science-you simply don’t know how kids are going to turn out if they are not the special, Kevin Love/OJ Mayo types who are so obviously beyond their classmates when they arrive on campus that you can see it from the moment they arrive.
What you think does matter. After all, this is an Internet board!
From the LA Times letters page
A reader (Karl Schlichting/Walnut): “UCLA’s basketball team will have no problem this year with players leaving early for the NBA.”
OMIGOD that’s funny!
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
I saw this coming when the recruiting class of 2008 was all run and gun players.
Bens style has always been control and over control, it works east of Vegas but not around here. That class and 2009 were made up mostly of West Coast players no bangers that had any offense. And yes calling players that don’t work out Srubs is totally living in the past, any player that leaves will automatically be better watch and see. These people have to realize that Wooden is over and there is no Sam Gilbert to save them, so suck it up UCLA fan we have for years.
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 13, 2009 9:36 AM PST reply actions
Here is one for all, Ben just doesn't get it you have to teach not have players watch film?
When the UCLA players gather at Pauley Pavilion today, they can expect a different sort of film session.
Instead of simply reviewing their most recent game, or analyzing an upcoming opponent, they will watch Bruins teams from past seasons.
Teams that parlayed tough defense and a patient offense into winning records. Teams that marched deep into the NCAA tournament.
“Our younger kids, in particular, need to see it,” Coach Ben Howland said. “So they see how it’s supposed to be done.”
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 13, 2009 10:52 AM PST reply actions
And maybe if the coach and fans would just forget about this dude they could start over.
“It really hurts me that he was here today and we played so poorly,” Howland said. “You just don’t want to disappoint Coach Wooden, and I feel like we’ve done that.”
Oh BOO WHO WHO
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 13, 2009 10:59 AM PST reply actions
Wow now they are calling Jrue Holiday a scrub, but then when he plays well in the NBA they will Identify him as a bruin.
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 13, 2009 1:34 PM PST reply actions
yep but it is so wrong. hey I haven't got to the point where I am ripping Bush, Mayo ( but I have said I wasn't a big fan of him coming to USC) Lienart.
Maybe I will make up a list of Srubs, chubs, Hubs, dubs, pubs etc. Give myself a greek name change my Email and join in the fun. On the other foot have you seen Temple play FB since you are on east coast I swa that they beat Navy.
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 13, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
what is BN’s deal with Jrue Holiday? I mean, he wasn’t a star, but he wasn’t awful either. Just curious.
by Joey Kaufman on Dec 13, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
Wow this is getting better by the moment!
Now you got people trying to tell Ben Howland who should be starting, it is getting think over there better put on those body waiters. Last I saw Ben was being paid to coach the Ruins BB program, not some guys with Fake Greek names. It is not really who is starting or coming off bench, that team is in flux and might never improve this season. People have to realize that there is better teams out there than UCLA, as witness last year in Pac-10 play and Tournament.
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 14, 2009 9:19 AM PST reply actions
I'ma get me some popcorn . . . .
. . . . . besides- we all know that it’s gonna be Washington and Cal this year in the men’s Pac 10 bball play.
Speaking of Cal? Our buddies over at Cal Golden Blogs have a saying and I think it fits for Fester (either he should create a BounceBenBall.com site or STFU & let the man coach) “Boy! Get your balls out your purse!”
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 15, 2009 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
I'm feeling that Ghost Of Sam Gilbert has come to collect on Ruin basketball.
You got to pay for your sins some day and I guess it happening now.
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 15, 2009 1:37 PM PST reply actions
SoCal, you are just too funny
I think we paid for the “sins” of Sam Gilbert when Lavin was coach…and before that , when UCLA had its FF appearance vacated after larry brown did his typical BS…and when Hazzard and farmer ran the program down before Harrick turned things around. We’ve suffered enough!
Besides, I’d wait until the end of the season before writing the epitaph for UCLA basketball. Howland can coach a little bit , y’ know.
Ben's alright for a hacker, as he was known among friends.
But the ghost will not go away until BN pays all WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 16, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think SoCal knows what SoCal wrote, and HE’S HIM! [ </ ;- ) ]
"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 16, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Wow I forgot all about the 1980 ncaa final team that got their 2nd place finished taken away, for inedible players.
Wow I don’t that ever happen to USC Ha ha ha ha ha ha hhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 16, 2009 8:44 PM PST reply actions
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