USC 14 ASU 9
by Paragon SC on Nov 7, 2009 8:56 PM PST
in USC Football
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PrintThis is a mediocre USC football team.
I hate to say it but it is true. The team is just disjointed in a lot of areas. The excuse of youth and depth is wearing thin. Injuries happen, we have dealt with them before. This program has played under classmen in the past so whay is it a big deal now?
As much as I love this program and as much patience as I have for some of the things I have seen this year I am starting to not be as charitable in my good will towards this teams performance.
As I noted in my game day notes, I knew that the offense had its work cut out for them against this aggressive ASU defense but not like this... once again stupid penalties and soft coverage kept ASU in this game all night. Matt Barkley took a step back in my eyes. He passing was not sharp he floated some balls out there. Blake Ayles needs to sit. I am more that willing to support Ayles when he makes bone headed moves like that picture at ND but with his play the past two week I see that he is not concentrating on making solid plays.
I think it is safe to say that the offensive line is not as good as advertised...far from it. The tackles were beat on regular basis. You could tell that Barkley was rattled as he had the ASU defense in his head from the early parts of the game. I saw a lot of happy feet back there tonight. I have been on record that play calling is overrated but tonight even I had some questions. The play calling was all over the place. I think it was early in the 2nd qtr. when were 3rd and long after a penalty Bates calls a running play? Why in Gods name would you that?
The defense made some nice adjustments. They got a lot of pressure on both ASU QB's tonight. If not for them it would have been much worse...If not for that pick 6 SC isn't even in this game...that is how bad it looked. Carroll and Seto did tighten up some of the coverage by moving the corners up closer to the LOS but once again the middle was left open for ASU's quick slants. And that TD for ASU that made it 14-9 was an embarrassment in coverage, Kevin Thomas is better than that. That was just frustrating...
Sullivan was as bad as we thought he was...he handed 3 turnovers over USC and we turned only one into points...the pick 6. That is not the USC offense we are used to seeing this season.The new kid that ASU has at QB will be a great player but not for a a couple of years...he has some talent but he is still raw.
I know SC is probably still punch drunk after last weekend but they really needed to shake the cobwebs loose...this one was all on the offense.
I have no idea how this team is going to be ready for Stanford next weekend. Lord help us...
Leave your comments and rants here...this our post game thread.
FIGHT ON!
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Hoping SC would show me something.
Even though SC pulled out a win they failed to impress. I think your assessment is correct; SC is mediocre this year. Try to win out and get the Holiday Bowl. Win that and start anew next year.
Win is a win ask me
If Arizona State had a competent offense they would have won, but they don’t. This team is so inconsistent. One week the offense is above average solid and the defense can’t stop a JV team. Another week the D looks like the ‘85 and the offense looks like it can’t buy a first down.
The officiating is becoming a joke in college football. These celebrations penalties are so inconsistent and ridiculous. I hate to be that guy, but it seems when it comes to celebrations the white players can do more while the black players can’t. Have you ever seen Tebow get penalized for excessive celebration? He is constant yelling and doing dumb bullshit while a DB who never gets in the end zone does some high stepping and gets penalized. Outrageous.
You shouldn’t be so down on the team after this game. Sure they played horrible offensively, but the defense played amazing, albeit against a horrible offensive team. How Sullivan has made this far in the season without getting benched is beyond me. Not a BCS level quarterback.
As for next week’s game. I like USC’s chances. Their defense is just awful and can’t stop anybody. Offensively they seem to be a threat, but USC’s handles pro style offenses pretty well for the most part. Stop Gerhart and you got a shot.
There was a firefight!!!!
You said it...
“You shouldn’t be so down on the team after this game. Sure they played horrible offensively, but the defense played amazing, albeit against a horrible offensive team.”
They shut down a team without an offense. No running game and a special needs kid at QB.
How some people can still believe SC is good enough for a BCS bowl is beyond me. I would not want to see that game right now. It will be interesting to see how SC responds at home to close out the season.
by BackdoorBarkley on Nov 7, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Not this team...not after all we have heard AND seen
they have done it before…I am the biggest sunshine pumper out there and I readily admit it but this offense looked horrendous…
Ayles could have opened it up if he hung on to the ball
we let these guys hang in there for far too long…
BAtes really perplexed me in some of the play calling…
Let's face it
Didn’t Kiffin’s calls perplex us? Didn’t Sark’s calls perplex us? The one constant — Pete Carroll. I tend to believe that Carroll handcuffs his OC’s, and they tend to scheme and call plays that they think Pete would like, not necessarily schemes and plays they’d run.
Since Norm Chow left
Pete Carroll has not hired an OC/play caller with previous experience in that role. I couldn’t tell you why….
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Nov 8, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
Why indeed . . .
Perhaps b/c EVERYTHING goes thru PC, defensive calls, offensive calls . . . I tend to think he tells OC’s what he wants in situations, and the OC/Play caller is expected to find the right play.
The Pros: It offers continuity, which I think is under-appreciated by fans. These are 18, 19, 20 years olds, and coaches only have 20 hours a week with them. So the kids know what to expect of them day after day for the whole three to four year time they are in school.
The Cons: USC OC’s tend to serve as over-paid interns. By the time they are up to speed as OC’s and play callers, head coaching/NFL job offers come rolling in.
Jeremy Bates
Had previous experience calling plays. Kiffin and Sark only won the Pac-10 every year that they were in charge. I’m satisfied with how things have been going on offense. Until this season, we have been just fine. This is obviously the first rebuilding year Pete has had since he took over.
I was basing this on his wikepedia biography
Jeremy Bates (born August 27, 1976) is an American football coach; he is currently the quarterbacks coach and assistant head coach for offense for the USC Trojans football team. He had previously served as quarterbacks coach for the NFL’s Denver Broncos.
His father, Jim Bates, is also a notable NFL football coach.
hing career
Bates began his coaching career with Tampa Bay Buccaneers as an offensive quality control coach from 2002-03; the Buccaneers won Super Bowl XXXVII in 2002. In 2004 he was promoted to assistant quarterbacks coach for the Buccaneers, working closely with Head Coach Jon Gruden and Quarterbacks Coach John Shoop. He was the New York Jets’ quarterbacks coach in 2005; due to a series of injuries the team fielded five different quarterbacks that season, notably Brooks Bollinger. He joined the Denver Broncos in 2006; in his first season he served as an offensive assistant, helping Offensive Coordinator Rick Dennison coach the offensive line. In 2007 he served as wide receivers/quarterbacks coach, and in 2008 as quarterbacks coach, both seasons working closely with quarterback Jay Cutler. In 2008, Cutler was a Pro Bowl selection and the Broncos had the NFL’s second-most productive offense. At the end of the 2008 NFL regular season, longtime head coach Mike Shanahan was fired and replaced by Josh McDaniels; due to the uncertainty, Bates began looking for a new position.1
On January 19, 2009, USC Trojans’ head coach Pete Carroll hired Bates to replace outgoing coach Carl Smith, who had only taken the quarterbacks job two weeks earlier before moving back to the NFL; Smith had replaced Steve Sarkisian, who had taken the head coaching position at the Washington after serving as both quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator; John Morton had been promoted to offensive coordinator. Bates will call plays from the field while new offensive coordinator John Morton works from the coaches’ booth in the press box, similar to a previous arrangement run by the Trojans during the 2005-2006 seasons between Sarkisian and Lane Kiffin, respectively.1
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Nov 8, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Sometimes wikipedia doesnt tell the whole picture
He called the plays for the Broncos.
“Bates, 33, handled the Broncos’ quarterbacks in
2008—when he called plays for the NFL’s No. 2
offense and helped Jay Cutler reach the Pro Bowl—after working with their
quarterbacks and wide receivers in 2007.”
OK all I get it too Pete has control of the team, so what happens is on him.
Still to this day I don’t know why FB teams have OCs and OC play callers, it should be only ONE PERSON. Really you would think an experience coach would get it, to many opinions is just that and it takes to much time. Or if they do need help then let the help work for you, not just stand there and burn up time and space.
I remember playing FB in HS it was simple maybe 10-15 plays, now even at the HS level they got play books as big as telephone books. It is a nice thought but after 20 plays you ruin the continuity factor. Ever notice what happens with the hurry up or no huddle offense. Teams that didn’t have any offensive flow all of a sudden become unstoppable.
It’s like I have always told my Tennis students and players, KISS (keep it simple stupid) to many shots to many mistakes.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 8, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Bayes called plays for Mike Shanahan
Like Rocky Seto calls defenses for Pete Carroll.
Which means Bates was more a messenger than not.
I agree about the celebration
when the second ASU QB ran for a first down he was hopping all over the place, and spiked the ball. Why is that ok, but high stepping or flexing after a sack is a penalty?
What does USC need to win the Pac 10?
Assuming USC wins out. What other results need to happen besides Oregon losing two more games? Can they win it with Oregon finishing with a 9-3 record?
There was a firefight!!!!
Think of 2007
You can win a share of the Pac-10 if Oregon loses again and you win out, but since you lost to Oregon, they are the top dog. That was what happened with ASU and USC two years ago, sadly.
by Cory Williams on Nov 7, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
If Oregon loses 1 more game
USC has a chance to be co-champions with Oregon, however Oregon would hold the tiebreaker.
USC Rose Bowl Tiebreaking Scenarios....Look Good
1) Zona beats Oregon, USC beats Zona, USC/Oregon/Zona win out, thereby eliminating Stanford and OSU. Head to head is a wash between USC/Oregon/Zona, so you start going down the list of top conference finishers and comparing head to head. When of the tied co-champions is eliminated by this process, you compare head to head among the remaining co-champions again. Under this scenario, Oregon would be elimated for losing to Stanford, then Zona would be eliminated for head to head against USC. Surprisingly, USC’s loss to lowly Washington helps in the conference tiebreaker. It’s more important to beat the higher finishing conference teams. USC in Rose Bowl.
2) Zona and Oregon St both beat Oregon, USC beats Zona. Three way tie between OSU, Zona, and USC. USC eliminates ’Furd with a victory. Oregon St is eliminated in head to head with losses to USC and Zona. USC beats Zona in head to head. USC in Rose Bowl.
3) Oregon St beats Oregon. Oregon and OSU win all remaining games. USC wins out, thereby eliminating Zona and ‘Furd. OSU, Oregon, and USC are co-champions. Head to head is a wash. Start using head to head against highest finishing teams. Again, USC’s loss to Washington is a plus. Oregon has a loss to Stanford, and OSU has a lost to Zona. So, Oregon and OSU are eliminated by head to head against other teams. USC goes to the Rose Bowl.
USC has to finish in a multi-team tie with Oregon, as USC would lose the head to head with Oregon in a two team tie. If that happens, USC looks great in regards to the tiebreakers. Oregon must lose to either Arizona or Oregon St. An Oregon loss to ASU doesn’t help much. And, USC must win out with critical wins over ’Furd and Zona.
Oregon still has to play ASU home, Arizona away, and osu home
All those games will be tough for them so it is not imposible they don’t win the 2 games they need to win Pac-10.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 8, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
What killed me the most...
were the dropped passes, over thrown/ under thrown passes and predictable play calling. ASU should not have had a chance on their last possession. Why Erickson stuck with Sullivan so long is beyond me.
Stanford will be banged up..
Gearhardt ran the ball 38 times! He is going to be sore this week. If I’m Pete I get ready for that POWER formation. Force Stanford to throw down field.
that could be a saving grace
and its not like they have a great D they gave up over 500 yards to the Duckies
So why do I not feel great about that game…
yes i saw him at end of game and he couldn't move very fast
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 8, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Irrevelevant
We need ua to beat ou and to woin out. That’s our shot at going for 8. The important thin is to win out.
Were clearly in a rebuildjg year. We need everyone to get good experience, and for the team to gain confidence. That’s what happens when 10 players are drafted.
We just need to improve. Hopefully we win out and somehow win a PAC 10 title extending the streak. Regardless, we can have a rebuilding year every now and again.
Fight On! Beat the Wolverines!
by USCLink on Nov 7, 2009 9:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
defense has their confidence back
and that’s a start; but they will give up some points to stanford, so the offense is going to have to be sharp
I’ve felt thusfar that our offensive troubles have less to do with the opposing defense and more with our own execution. So regardless of how horrible the Stanford D is, it will still come down to our guys making some plays.
Too many dropped passes. You guys pointed out the big ones to Ayles. The one to RoJo for a first down was on the numbers. Even the one to Ellison, which was a little behind, went right through his hands.
Our offense is now “like a box of chocolates”. They haven’t looked good in most of the last 10 quarters
Tough order next week
With beat up wide receivers, and no fullbacks or tight ends that can catch a ball, plus banged up running backs we’re in for more anemic production on offense; and Andrew Luck can actually pass the ball so it will be a slant fest into our soft zone in addition to the Toby Tussle. It will be tough to watch without copious libations, luckily it will be homecoming.
The Loco-line USC +2
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
Is it too soon
To declare the Bates-Morton experiment a failure?
Its sure looking that way
I actually missed Sark!
Bates is a good QB's coach and he seems to be doing well for Barkley
but Morton is stinking it up in the booth, and while we’re at it how does Brennan Carroll get a free pass? Wtf is wrong with Ayles?
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 7, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
Ayles has serious problems
On the whole tight end play has been a strength over the last few years — You might even say it has improved since Brennan Carroll took over. Byrd, Davis, McCoy are among the best at that position ever to play at USC. Ayles needs to sit, there must be someone else who stands a chance of actually catching a pass.
Maybe Brennan has let Ayles get away with murder because of his medical issues; but right now the team should grab him and shave that stupid mane off his head. It’s time for a little humbleness, you don’t get to wear the Clay Matthews hair if you can’t cut it on the field.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
I was thinking the same thing
if you ave no skills, affectations are unnecessary.
Don't Blame Bates/Morton
Blame PC. He threw away the last remaining vestiges of the Norm Chow west coast offense after Leinart graduated in 2005. USC hasn’t had a top 10 offense since, despite top 10 offensive talent. Our offense is conservative, ball control offense that puts way too much pressure on the QB to make pro throws. This happens because our conference foes know our offensive schemes as well as we do, so they stack the box to force Barkley to throw to the outside.
Remember our ball control, west coast passing game with Leinart? Screens, slants, quick outs. Short passes that were more like runs? The offenses quick rhythm? The pursuit of mismatches to exploit, and the ability to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers easily and in open space? Our best play yesterday was a simple screen to Damian!
PC has really ruined the USC offense since Norm left. This is not a one game, or a one season thing. Look back at the Booty era, and many of Sanchez’s games. Sanchez and Booty were excellent college QBs handcuffed by the USC conservative, pro-style offense. The offensive meltdown has been in the works since 2005.
Don’t blame Morton/Bates. PC needs to fire himself as de facto OC.
I really see that too, maybe thats way Mark got out.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 8, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
The Last of the Chow Blood
Died when Sark left. The royal bloodline is severed. Bates-Morton is the result. Commoners. Pedestrians.
As soon as UCLA dumps him or vice versa, Pete must make sure Norm Chow is the highest paid BCS offensive coordinator in the game.
C'mon now...
Good lord people, look at yourself! This is the most we have had to reload in a year with a true freshman starting with almost half our offensive players out due to injuries and our defense ain’t without some key players too.
Sure, this isn’t the best team we have ever heard but considering we are 3-1 against ranked teams on the road, I’d say we are still doing damn good! There was a couple crucial mistakes here and there (Ayles dropping a TD pass) that could of made this a potential blow out.
Also, I think that we are as good as any team for a BCS berth. I mean, you guys say we aren’t but if you look at the landscape this year, there isn’t any really dominating teams this year in the Top 10. And with the PAC-10 having one of it’s best years, we may even have 2 teams with a BCS berth.
PAC-10 away games have been as hard as ever so I still have faith in Pete that he will get it done. A win’s a win, no one will remember in 5 years who lost to who. FIGHT ON!
Nice try Fozzy, but
the missed opportunities and frustrations of the previous four seasons are culminating in this. Most Trojan die-hards would agree with you if PC (and his Wunderkinder) had been able to beat any of Texas, ugla, Stanford or Oregon State. In other words, even if we had just one more crystal football in the case, this season’s miseries could be easily stomached.
Perhaps PC has been concentrating too hard on proving the righteousness of his personal philosophy (while championing several worthy causes), but it has come at the price of forgetting how to “win forever” within the messy confines of the gridiron.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
Yah Loco and reading to many books--like Inner Tennis
Tim Galloway couldn’t play, couldn’t teach, but decided to write a book (to make money tennis was booming) when either high or tripping on Acid
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 8, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Stanford fan here.......
looking forward to the game next week.
Should be a good one.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 8, 2009 8:34 AM PST reply actions
No more than I liked our chances again UO.
And its actually worse because this one will be on the road.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 8, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
That’s insightful… anyway, I didn’t know Stanford had actual fans (or a fan), just students and alums.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
Im more of Jim Harbaugh fan than a "Stanford" fan.........
if Im being completely honest.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 8, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
Kill the Tampa 2! Hire Chow or another Awesome Proven OC!
The recipe that will put us in Crystal Football Land next year:
Kill Tampa 2 – the freaking slant-fest in our soft middle is what kills us! What about man-to-man? What about anything else for gods sake? The bend-don’t-break BREAKS! The “letting their offense play in front of us” crap puts their offense totally BEHIND us like IN our red zone!
Hire a college OC who has proven he innovates and generates yards and points! We are U-S-Freaking-C for gods sake! We can lure any great OC we really want to get if PC gives up his brick-handed oversight of the Offense and pays the new OC what he is worth!
Kill Tampa 2. Hire great experienced OC. Win the Crystal Football.
Watch the Arizona-Chicago
If you want to see, at the NFL level, the obselence of the Tampa 2 in the 21st century. Arizona just marched down the field, receivers were catching balls 5 yards in front of DB’s, the free safety so far away from the line of scrimmage, the only time he comes onto the TV screen is dragging down a receiver 20 years down field. Thing we see week after week.
The Florida-Oregon run option has made the Tampa 2 obsolete at ther college level. It does no good when your FS is 20 yards off the line of scrimmage and the QB and RB are gaining 8 to 10 years a pop.
The shotgun spread seems to have made the Tampa 2 obsolete in the NFL. When you send 5 players into the second level. someone will always be open. And if you sag for the pass, a quick handoff and get 10 yards a pop.
Both Pete Carroll and Lovie Smith are Monte Kiffin disciples, so it figures. But is Monte Kiffion even running the Tampa 2 at Tennessee? The games I’ve watched I’ve seen the CB’s right on top of the receivers and I’m not seeing Eric Berry 20 years downfield every play.
Come on people
The good will he’s built up has been squandered? How dare you! Pete has returned our program
to relevance. We’ve had one of the most successful decades in the history of he sport. What the he’ll do you want? A championship every year?
Be realistic people. Our defense, which is extremely inexperienced, forced 4 turnovers. The offense had a crappy night. It happens. On the road against a tough PAC-10 opponent, I’m ok with that. We walked away with the win.
I don’t understand why we refuse to give positive credit where it’s due. 4 turnovers is a great night! The tampa 2 allowed those turnovers to happen! That wasn’t luck, that was our scheme and talent doing what it’s designed to do. When is holding a team to 9 points a bar night?
Think about what you’re complaining about people! We don’t score enough against Oregon state when we put up 40, and now our defense is letting too much happen underneath on a night where we allow 9?
It was a road win. There are no excuses necessary because of that w. At the end of the day, what else do you want?
Fight On! Beat the Wolverines!
by USCLink on Nov 8, 2009 10:38 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Love PC, Hope He Stays Forever
But to Win Forever, he has to adapt. College football is all about proactive evolution.
I think we got the turnovers in spite of the Tampa 2. Sullivan is a mediocre QB who can’t execute with consistency.
I think the pro-style offense is on the way out in college fb. Barkley might be the last of the great SC pro-style QBs, assuming Bates/Morton learn how to use him.
reply below
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 9, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I understand what you are saying ,, but for the Pro style offense on it's way no sur.
There probably more pro style systems in place in the last 15 years than before that, it is one of the most common offenses in football. That is not way this has had a few loses and doesn’t look in sync.
1) to many new players on defense and no leader—I don’t who PC wanted to lead Dee (Taylor
mays—Gilipo—?) but no player has clearly stepped forward.
2) loosing Mark Sanchez took away the leader of the offense and the team—MB is just a freshman (but best qb and CROP and Mustain didn’t take rains) so they gave it to MB as a coachable leader. Plus ever gone to Practice and watch PC throw routes, well he has a better arm than AC and MM, a I still think he uses it as measuring stick.
3) last that we lost 5-6 coaches on the the team—and the new coaches haven’t stepped up or moved into there place yet. Remember this isn’t the pros where a staff and players can be together 6-8 hours a day.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 9, 2009 5:12 AM PST reply actions
Pete needs to fire himself as OC
It’s obvious now that no matter who the de facto OC is PC is the one actually calling plays and he’s not particularly good at it.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Yes you got that in a nutshell, I thinking he always wanted to be a Qb
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 9, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
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