The Ramifications of getting Nuked by Stanford...
by Paragon SC on Nov 15, 2009 4:11 PM PST
in USC Football
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PrintI haven't even bothered to read the local rags or the national websites. Why bother, I already know what they are going to say so why bother...A loss like the one yesterday brings all the detractors out.
It is bad enough that Pete Carroll and USC, for a myriad of reasons, completely fell apart yesterday but the lack of "finishing" that Pete Carroll always preaches has opened him up to a ton of criticism. Legit or not SC is just one of those programs that everyone loves to hate. That is fine...it is what it is and there isn't much we can do about it. Had Pete Carroll racked up a one or two more MNC's this loss, as bad as it is, really would not sting as much as it does.
There isn't a successful program out there that hasn't gone through something like this at some point or another. Every team has an ugly loss and every team goes through a bad string but with that being said this was an ugly one for USC. When coupled with the loss to Oregon and the struggles with Oregon St., ASU and the 2nd half of Notre Dame there is a bad pattern that makes everyone across the college football landscape do a double take. UW is throw away game for all the obvious reasons...no need to rehash that.
There were many in the press that thought in the pre-season that USC would once again make a run to an 8th straight Pac-10 title. They were picked by just about everyone because no other team in the Pac-10 had stepped up to take the title by the throat. It was an easy choice for those who did not do their homework...and because USC has collapsed so bad this season it made all those pundits look bad and because they have an unlimited supply of ink I would expect SC to get dump trucked in the press and on TV.
As bad as it was yesterday Pete Carroll has brought enough success to USC that he deserves a rebuilding year. Yes, he still should have put another MNC pelt or two on the wall but some of that was out of his control.
I still believe in Pete Carroll...
BUT...
He now has a very slim margin of good will with a majority of the fans and alums.
Pete Carroll's success at USC has opened many avenues for him to spread his word. Whether it is FaceBook, Twitter or all the work he has done for A Greater L.A. Pete Carroll has put his brand out there. Many fans have supported these endeavors. We supported him every time he jumps on board with something that is aligned with his charity work. Pete Carroll is allowed to have a personal life...He can do whatever he wants in his free time and it really is none our business but when he exposes himself the way he has the few years it makes it tough for any fan to continue to support his good deeds when the performance on the field is as bad as we have seen it the past four weeks.
Fans are fickle, they only care about winning. They can accept a loss here or there even a bad one at that, but with all the exposure Pete Carroll has received for his outside endeavors a loss like this will make some fans take a second look at his commitment to winning. It may not be right but that is how it is...I realize that may be hard to take for some people but everything is on the table especially with the way this team has imploded this season.
I think many of us have been understanding when it comes to the offense. Freshman QB, rookie college QB Coach, New OC etc. etc. Understandably, that takes time to develop, but if it takes so much time that Pete Carroll's attention is divided too much from his overseeing the defense, especially with a rookie DC, then there will be questions and they are coming right now. Pete Carroll is the defensive guru. Whether or not we like the overall schemes he is running is immaterial...before this year they served us fine. Yes, there were a few close calls and few untimely losses but the overall package has been a solid one.
This year is different...
None of us wanted to believe that after losing eleven or so players to the NFL that were just going to reload. My friend Clay told me that when he saw the fall scrimmages he could tell that this team had three or four losses staring them in the face...how right he was. None of us wanted to believe it. The past few seasons I went on EDSBS Live and said that I thought the team had one or two losses. This year I made no such proclamation... I thought that PC had it all under control.
How wrong I was...
I figured there was a loss there but not three and certainly not as bad as the last two.
This program is at a crossroads...if you think that is some dramatic statement think again.
The a few teams in the Pac-10 have caught up. They do not fear USC. They are recruiting some solid players...Just like SC. And they have some solid staffs in place. Based on what I have seen I still want PC as the head coach but he has to make some changes...he has to overcome and adapt to the new style of play. Most important he has to release some control. In the end it is his decision, but his micromanaging style is what sunk him in both New York and New England. Could that be the case here?
That is just the tip of the iceberg. There is still an NCAA investigation hovering out there. Those findings could hurt the program even more and when coupled with recruits that might take a second look at what some are already considering a once proud program. SC could be be in for some lean years.
And it could get worse...
There are two games left on the schedule. If SC doesn't get back on track it could find itself on the wrong end of these games. We all know that ucla is a rivalry game and anything could happen. UA was in the Pac-10 title hunt until they lost to Cal but don't think they won't look to take advantage of a vulnerable USC team.
I can't think of a more urgent time for USC.
I could care less about what the polls say or what Bowl game SC is in. Those are short term markers the real test will be if the team can get back to semblance of its former self. The sky is not falling but the skies sure look gloomy. This is where this staff has to earn their money. Are they going to fold like a two-dollar suitcase or are they going to kick some ass and take some names?
I am sure it will be an interesting bye week.
One final thought...tomorrow is "tell the truth Monday" I would be interested in hearing the coaches tell the truth as well. It is clear that some of them are not getting the word passed down to the players that have to execute.
We will close the book on Stanford tomorrow but I really don't know what else there is to say....
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The added wrinkle is
that PC hasn’t found the “defensive guru” hat to be satisfactory. Since 2005 he’s been trying on the “offensive guru” and “special teams guru” and “just plain guru” hats… at the same time. Yesterday it was confirmed that there’s a limit to all his “awesomeness,” only the Universe can stay in full expansion mode “forever.”
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
100% in agreement with you on this
It’s obvious that Pete is trying to be in charge of everything, he’s let his ego take control. What we are seeing now are hallmarks of why his teams in the NFL failed.
It’s pretty obvious that teams have figured out that our defense is undisciplined and over aggressive. How many times against Oregon and Stanford did the line/LBers over pursue? How many times did people go for kill shots instead of simply wrapping up and making the tackle?
The opponents game plans aren’t fancy or outlandish, I think most experienced viewers can pick out what the play is going to be before the snap, the real key is that the opponents know our weaknesses (many of which are a hallmark of under coached players) and are taking advantage of them.
I honestly hope that PC gets over his favoritism, stops spending so much time self promoting, and goes back to teaching fundamentals, like you know, tackling.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
There's no more COMPETITION within the program - that's the problem
Hear me out on this guys. The dynasty started because PC brought competition back to the program. The reason recruits wanted to some here in the early & mid part of the decade was a chance to compete for a starting position – even as a freshman. With the success, COMPETEing and competition became the mantra of the program.
These days however, I think its all a facade. Think about it, there’s no real competition within the program. Here are 3 prime examples:
1. QB – Matt Barkley is and will be the QB of the future. But really, was there a fair competition for the spot? Mustain was out of it from the beginning. Corp was given no chance to win the starting spot back. Since Barkley was named the starter, was there really any competition after that? Nope.
2. RB – This is where I have the biggest issue. Ever since Joe McKnight stepped onto campus there has been no competition for this position. It’s been his – and even when he deserves to lose it with his fumbles – he doesn’t. How does that look to the other guys? Gable fumbled at UCLA and hasn’t seen the field since. McKnight coughs up the ball, and the next series he’s back in. I understand the infatuation with McKnight. But at the end of the day, don’t tell me there’s COMPETITION for every position cause clearly there isn’t.
3. Safety – Yeah I said it! I have no issue with TM maintaining his position – what real option do we have. However, it doesn’t mean that you allow your “All-American” safety to stay in there when he’s making bone-headed play after bone-headed play. There should be consequences. Again, he gets a pass. How does that look for the other guys?
Although these are the ones that jump out at me, I’m sure there are other positions where these issues pop up. Everson Griffen is another one I can think of that gets a pass.
With all these “passes” the coaches give to certain players, COMPETITION has been replaced by COMPLACENCY. And as we all know, when you becoming complacent, you lose your edge.
by spn168 on Nov 15, 2009 6:16 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
no competition in sc?
hah.. you pointed out only 3 position of the 10 positions in the game..
hah.. you pointed out only 3 position of the 10 positions in the game..plus one of arguments joe mcnight is wrong.. he is clearly the best back in SC
hah.. you pointed out only 3 position of the 10 positions in the game..plus one of arguments joe mcnight is wrong.. he is clearly the best back in SC
by matthewmafa on Nov 15, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
it’s one of my favorite knock knock jokes. As I understand it, Philip Glass pieces are very repetitive, as was the comment I was responding to.
someday I will tell you guys the 5 dollar duck joke.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 16, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
3 Biggest Examples
Mafa -
I pointed out the 3 positions where I find players getting passes. That’s where I feel players behind the starters aren’t really given a chance to “compete” and therefore the people behind them get complacent. . I apologize for not coming up with examples of all 11 positions.
In terms of Joe McKnight, I agree he has the most talent and big play ability. However, he’s also had fumbling issues throughout his career but has never really been penalized for it. IMHO, I feel AB is our most consistent back. He’ll gain positive yardage on most plays. McKnight has a tendency to lose 3 or 4 yards, but will crank out a 50 yarder every game.
I believe there is some merit to this
1) Vidal Hazelton, +50 receptions as a soph, certified stud, on his way to an all-american level of career, relegated to PC’s doghouse and transferred after hid Dad popped off in the media about his son’s medical attention, or lack thereof. John Morton argued to get Vidal back on the field to know avail.
2) CJ Gable, 19 starts, 15 TDs, approx 20 +20 yard plays, recognized by our coaches as our “best all around back.” For the first time in his career has a two fumbles in big games, and has splinters from the bench every game thereafter.
3) Mitch Mustain, Parade All-American, 8-0 as a starter in the SEC. Corp and Barkley both have terrible games, Mustain, the Trojans most experienced QB, continues to sit on the bench.
I have no proof, but can see the hyprocrisy of PC’s decision to make Barkley a game-time decision in UW week seeping into the psyche of the team. Everyone else has to practice by Thur, or they don’t play. But, not MB7, who gets special treatment over 2 experienced QBs who have waited their turn. CJG has 2 fumbles and expresses his frustration, and rarely plays again, while Joe Mc and his 20 fumbles are force fed the ball. A great WR, Vidal Hazelton, is run out of the program, not based on performance, but politics.
The Always Compete, best players will play mantra from PC must ring a bit hollow to the team at this point.
Vidal Hazelton was the Spritual Leader for USC
When Pete Carroll forced Vidal Hazelton out of USC because his dad criticized the USC trainers for poor treatment of his son. That sent a wrong message. According to players at USC. Vidal’s USC teamates. Vidal was the spirit of USC. He kept everyone fighting ON!!!! He wasn’t afraid of no challenge but he also got the heat for anyone acting up during team meetings. According to reliable sources. The coaches felt Vidal had too much psychological control over the key players at USC. He had the tendency of igniting the players during trash talking. But Vidal would always trash talk anyone to elevate their game. That;s just how he played. This might sound crazy but another source said that a close relative of Vidal from Africa dropped some black magic VooDoo on Pete Carroll while visiting him at USC. They said his Dynasty in DONE. Pete you and your coaches may be in over your head. I try not to belive in stuff like this but what is really going on at SC. USC is ranked #20 and Cincy is ranked #5. Could this be Pete Carroll’s faith? According to this source Steve Sarkissian was also sanctioned by this African spell as well. According to a few players still on USC roster. They have concerns about Coach Carroll’s confidence. In their words " I have never seen him so scared" He is acting out of character.
I remember seeing another blog that confirmed this same event. They also predicted USC loosing 3 games. Is it possible that USC is losing games because they crossed Vidal Hazelton? Many USC players seems to believe this!!! Another inside is that Kyle Prater will de-commit from USC. Is it possible that USC has a CURSE? What is your thoughts?
The rest of the season
Sure finishing strong with 2 regular season wins and then a bowl game would be great….but at this point, the one thing I care about more than anything else this season is beating UCLA. If SC doesn’t manage to beat the Bruins, then the season goes from “rebuilding” to “disaster.” The recruiting impact alone would be huge, not to mention all the drivel from the media – I can just see Bill “this will always be a Bruin town” Plaschke’s spew now….
At this point, I just want to make it out of the season with a win versus the Bruins and possibly a bowl win – beating Arizona would be cake. In the grand scheme of things for this program, next season will be very defining in terms of whether we can stay near the top or if we are beginning a dangerous slide….
Pete Has Learned Lessons Before
The Jets and the Patriots experiences taught him the dangers of micromanagement. He learned to delegate to talented, experienced assistants, focus his energies on recruiting and team attitude and executive level decisions regarding the work done by the assistants. This is the best way to run a football team.
After Coach Orgeron left Pete’s micromanagement began to creep into the D. After Coach Chow left Pete’s micromanagement began to creep into the O. Now here in 2009, PC’s micromanagement of D and O has returned to its NFL levels. We’re now seeing similar results.
But Coach Carroll learned before, and he can learn again. Hire talented, experienced assistants. Delegate to them. Focus his energies on recruiting, team attitude, and making executive level decisions based on the assistant coaches’ work.
Will he return to this mode of operation, or is he addicted to micromanagement? Gut feelings make me fearful that he can’t escape his urge to micromanage. If so, the slide to mediocrity has begun. But past experience shows PC can indeed change his spots. Gut feelings can be wrong. Let’s hope so.
There is more to this than meets the eye!
spn168,
you categorize very clearly some of the GLARING examples of favoritism shown by Peter Perfect; however they extend beyond the players to the incompetence of his staff. As uscdude clearly points out, his style of managing, that of micromanaging, this was prevalent even during the Chow years, wanting all the praise for the success of the team and not allowing those who had worked their asses off, getting their just due. Why, just Why, have all, if not most of the talented coaching staff left USC? opportunity or just to get some autonomy in their endeavors, Chow and Orgeron had opportunity, Nick Holt made a lateral position change. One has to look further into the program than just the Win-Loss columns. This program has been sliding down the slope gradually each year since 2006 and now it’s on a free fall, the problem is not who is chosen to play but, in the who is choosing them…that clearly sets at the feet of Peter Perfect. uscdude points out the so-called “Lessons Learned” they were learned only to the extent that he has been able to conceal and gloss them over; we are dealing with a character flaw, one that will ultimately nullify all the good that has come out of Peter Perfects tenure.
What due you have some insider info on how Pete lives his life and what he wants out of it.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 16, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
These are the ramifications I feared...
Josh Shaw committed to Florida this hour.
Powell has said he wants to be his college roommate.
Stills and Martin (questioning his ND verbal) have renewed interest in Florida.
Carroll just opened up the SoCal recruiting floodgates and the evil Gators are the main recipient. I really didn’t mind when USC hoarded all the California talent — as long as you kept those kids from Florida and LSU.
No more. Do you hear that, Coach Saban? Get on a plane to LAX IMMEDIATELY! USC has lost its luster and our biggest conference rival (sorry, Auburn) got here first.
We better get in on the gold rush, ASAP, because the KING of college football is in the SEC, and I can’t believe it’s the Gators and not the Tide.
Now there is no way Meyer goes to ND.
This is a nightmare.
That's how we roll
From Pac-1 to Pac-none again. I just hope our kids enjoy the Southern hospitality at Uncle Urbie’s plantation.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 17, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
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