Pete Carroll needs to rethink some things
I love Pete Carroll but he got his comeuppance on Saturday. Judging from the picture above that had to a be a long walk back to the locker room...
SC fans had better buckle up. Because of the last 7 seasons of dominance, EVERYONE is going to be lining up to take their shots at us after this loss. I saw it with the comments of the Stanford players on the sidelines, I saw it with Harbaugh's comments after the game and I saw it with that clown Tim Brando on CBS. We will see it with others. On TV and in print.
What many SC Fans are feeling right now is how many of our competitors felt after SC trounced them over the years. It happens and now it is our turn. We will get through it...
Now for some hard observations... I am going to try to look at the bright side as best as I can but that will hard. After what we saw today, it is going to be tough to look at anything in a positive light...
I honestly think PC has lost this team. I did not see a lot of heart out there today. I honestly wonder if they actually buy into what he is selling. A meltdown like the one we are witnessing this season could have some tough ramifications...mostly in regards to recruiting. Recruits see the type of effort out there today and have to wonder WTF. That is not the SC I know.
There will be many that will now critique and criticize everything perceived wrong with this team. From play-calling to the coaches on staff, from pre-game preparations to the effort of the players on the field. Everything will be under the microscope. That might not be a bad thing.
Many of these players will be back next year...and right or wrong probably many of the coaches. Pete Carroll will get his fair share of recruits but I doubt he will achieve the level of success that he saw just a couple of years ago. I think the big knock on Pete Carroll that has really taken root is that with all that talent he always loses the game he should not. If SC lost in Columbus but won out this season, I think many fans would have accepted that. The ‘Shoe is a tough place to play but the other losses the past 3 seasons who we should not have lost have made many fans scratch their heads.
There were some flashes of some nice things out there today. However, it was hardly consistent. Maybe this is the wake up call Pete Carroll needs; he has been living off the Reggie and Matt years without getting back to that plateau. It wasn't just today... there have been a number of things over the past few seasons that a number of people have complained about. There have been some great games that he and his team(s) have given us over the years but it is clear this year that he really mishandled a number of things.
I would like to think that this sort of adversity is just the thing Pete Carroll needs. It is a new feeling for him getting dominated like this twice in a season. How will he respond?
I pretty much kept quiet but it is time to reexamine that.
Pete Carroll has set the bar high so it all lies with him.
The question is simple...is Pete Carroll as hungry as he was after the 2001 season? Does he have the desire and drive to get back where SC once was?
I am not talking about or going to go down the road of pining for Norm Chow. That ship has sailed, and those of you still pine for those days need to let it go...Continuing to pine for something that is NEVER coming back diminishes your credibility. There are plenty of other things to examine.
A more valid complaint is that if PC was going to go in a different direction on offense then he should have went with a little more experience. Kiffin and Sark were serviceable but that was because there was a lot of talent and a lot spillover from those MNC years. Pete also needs to get out of the way of the offense...he is a defensive guy. I understand that he will want to know what is going on with the offense. So, set some parameters but let the offensive coaches you hire do their thing. If you do not trust Jeremy Bates or John Morton then why hire or promote them?
I think it is safe to say that USC fans are tired of hearing how many players Pete Carroll puts in the NFL. There is no reason why some of this talent cannot get over the hump while at USC. It is a nice after thought but not if those players are not going to produce before going after the riches of the NFL.
We all marveled at all the running backs we have had but the way they have been utilized never let one RB become dominant. It actually telegraphed some of our play calling and some will say that goes back all the way to NOT having Bush in the game on 4th & 2. PC's love affair with Joe McKnight early on hurt the development of some of the other backs. The coaches constantly force fed McKnight when he was not ready. There was no reason not use him sparingly...He was never going to be a Reggie Bush clone. He doesn't have the size or speed and certainly not the hands. McKnight got a pass on his inability to hang onto the ball that other backs did not get. I think that affects development. It also affects attitude. There was no carrot and stick. Sure, McKnight made some great runs and this year he finally hit his stride but SC needed another Thunder & Lightning combo and because PC wanted too much of a good thing he neglected developing that type of combo.
The Defense for as dominant as it once was has not developed the fundamentals. Tackling is still sub par; wrapping opposing players up is non-existent. Yes, Pete Carroll has made some adjustments the past few weeks but the team is not playing with fire.
I could probably go on all night...
Change is needed; I am one of those fans who will always look for the positive in just about anything the program puts in front of me.
Why Not?
For the most part Pete Carroll has given us some great seasons...the run could not last forever. But if PC is going to get back to that level he is going to have make some changes...on and off the field...from coaches to play calling, from recruiting to player development. It all has to be on the table. Pete needs to have some serious introspection. Finishing the season with two wins is not going to be enough. The team needs to regain its fire.
How they do that right now is anyone's guess...
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38 comments
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Comments
Greatest Coach Ever
I’ll go on the record now as saying that there is still not another coach in the country that I would rather have than PC. We have been spoiled rotten. Actually being kicked in the teeth a few times this season, rather than scraping by for a 10-win season, is probably the best thing in the world to happen to us. PC’s eyes should be wide open that changes need to be made. The BCS streak couldn’t last forever. This will make the victory over Stanford and the rest of the PacX next year just that much sweeter. Fight on, PC!
by DFWTrojan on Nov 14, 2009 7:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If anything the humiliation of this loss will force PC to rethink everything.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 14, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It SHOULD, but....
Will he? Every major college football coach has an ego, which is understandable and even expected, but will this really be the eye-opening that Pete needs? We can all wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which fills up first….
I love PC as much as the next Trojan, but for PC to “rethink everything”….I’ll believe it when I see it. Fight on anyways!
by FightOn09 on Nov 15, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This was the equivalent
of seeing your financial empire go into Chapter 11. If he doesn’t “get it” he’ll have another miserable season next year followed by a recruiting catastrophe.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 15, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm scared of
After the Oregon debacle, I said my concern was that we’d put on a semi-dominating performance at ASU and everyone would simply say “oh, that was an anomaly” due to a gimmicky offense or whatever and everything with the defense is fine. While I think most of us here knew better (especially the way we surrendered some long drives to the Sun Devils), it seemed like stories out of the national media seemed to accept that USC’s defense was “back” or at least OK. Then, of course, we saw how they played against Stanford.
My biggest concern, in terms of long term issues for the program, is that we win our last 3 games, win a couple of early games next season (we’ve probably got a good chance to be 5-0 next season heading into the Stanford game) WITHOUT making significant changes and everyone will declare USC to be “back on top” while we could likely be precariously close to another “collapse” like this season.
I’m not saying that PC’s current schemes/ideas can’t work for us anymore (we certainly have enough injury excuses with our already young/inexperienced defense this year, but injuries are a regular problem for PC’s teams, so that shouldn’t cut it) but obviously, some adjustments needed to be made. We’ve managed to skate to 11-2 and 12-1 seasons previously, largely relying on superior talent and (at times) coaching. Those significant talent and coaching gaps USC once enjoyed are clearly now dwindling and won’t cut it anymore. I just hope that Coach Carroll understands this and takes the necessary steps to evolve this team, rather than sticking to his “tried and true” formula, which worked for a time, but will no longer suffice.
Again, I’ll believe it when I see it.
by FightOn09 on Nov 15, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious
what did Harbaugh and Brando say after the game? I missed it.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Nov 14, 2009 7:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Only things that could cheer me up tonight....
are ND and UCLA losses. And Pitt is rolling, so I am about to crack a 1/2 smile. Pitt 20 ND 3!!! Yes, that is a full grin I have.
Go Wazzu Cougars! How sweet would that win be?
by DFWTrojan on Nov 14, 2009 7:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not happening!
When things go south, change is usually what the fans cry for (fans like me).
But it will be tough to make those changes, for the following reasons:
- Bates is in his first year and he has to develop a true freshman, he will have to be given another year to prove that he can succeed at the college level. Even if we lose another game or two this year.
- Bates can point to the O-line, which was supposed to be the deepest and strongest group in the team. A reason we thought we might be okay on offense. Many thought that all ‘SC has to do this season is simply have ANY quarterback simply hand the ball off. That clearly hasn’t been the case, especially the last three games.
- Defense is clearly young and oft injured. No one will get canned on that side of the ball either. Our current defense looks a lot like the one we had in 2005. Think back to our games with Fresno State, Oregon State, Asu, Oregon, Cal, and finally Texas. I don’t think PC fired anyone after that season, only because it was clear how young and inexperienced our defense was that year. Defensive staff will come back intact.
I’m not saying that change isn’t needed, just that it may not happen this year.
by TrojanInAtlanta on Nov 14, 2009 8:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
We can still change schematically....
like losing the boring, stale, predictable pro-style offense and adding back some more innovative, modern schemes. Simply implementing the Norm Chow west coast passing attack from 04/05 would be a great start. Actually, it may have gone unnoticed, but SC finally used some west coast formations prominently for the 1st time in a long time tonight. It actually worked beautifully with the best games of the season for Joe Mc, Brice, and RoJo. MB7s TOs killed us. But, the yardage was there.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 14, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dallas will you never let the offense thing go will you, basically this is a non-team playing at Sc right now .Yes Para you are right PC has lost this team, and that has been evident since Ohio.
Yes Para you are right PC has lost this team, and that has been evident since Ohio. It is time for for Coach and staff to start working together to improve themselves so they can improve the players who entrusted in them.
Coaching it is what I do now lets see if they can
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 5:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You summed up why I feel good about Nov.28
This USC team has no spirit left/Pete seems to have lost them.
We’ll find out though. UCLA is no Stanford…you should be us. If you keep on forgetting how to tackle, if there’s no fire in your bellies, and if Barkley keeps up with the happy feet in the pocket, our chances are pretty damn good.
Question – If Pete really lost this team, how does one win them back over? Maybe someone with some football experience can answer that.
by BruinFan1 on Nov 14, 2009 9:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"UCLA is No Stanford"
:-) Thanks for making me smile, BF1. At least the Farm and Oregon are top 12 quality, BCS-level teams with plenty of NFL talent.
Now, losing to fU¢LA would truly signify the end of an era. We have imploded, but not to that pre-historic level. MB7 could play with a blindfold, and the Trojans will still pop the baby bruskis.
Hmmm, MB7 playing with a blindfold? Interesting.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 14, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our comments have nothing to with fate, it's up to the players and it has always been just that.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 5:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Over the top
comments from the gutties are expected. This offense can move the ball, but they keep putting the defense in a horrible position by either turning the ball over or failing to put together any long drives, especially in the second half. There’s a bye week to prepare for the ruins and no one should underestimate this team’s desire to end the season on a favorable note. Today we saw the end of a run, not the end of an era; count on it.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 14, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What was over the top about what I said?
UCLA is not as good as Stanford. When we beat you (yes, when), that’ll be much different than Stanford beating you. But in another sense, today’s game was USC’s worst loss in the Coliseum…so maybe not? Don’t forget you could only muster up ONE offensive touchdown against ASU.
The Trojans got some real problems dude. I also don’t think I’m being over the top in the least bit.
by BruinFan1 on Nov 14, 2009 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You ARE over the top
We lost to a an excellent Oregon team and an excellent Stanford team; that does not add up to any kind of ruin victory. You’ve been hitting the sauce and that’s OK, it’s Saturday night and you can dream all you want after beating mighty Wazzu.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 14, 2009 11:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And for anyone who may get a cold/flu...
I get “Mexican hot chocolate.” I think the brand is Abuelita. Makes me feel better every single time. So so good.
by BruinFan1 on Nov 15, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chocolate Abuelita
can fix anything. Maybe we should start putting it in the team’s Gatorade cooler.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 15, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My friend READ the Ingredients label you might discover something. LOL
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 5:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am confident in our impending victory....
But I will say more after our meeting with ASU. Gotta take care of business first.
by BruinFan1 on Nov 14, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, you think we've got problems?
Today was your first really good outing, too bad you were playing a high school team.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 14, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know we got problems.
I just think our problems are very different. I think your problems are much more ominous because of what Paragon said (and something I perceived while watching your game)…it appears Pete has lost the team. Is this true? The hell if I know, but it sure seems seemed like it. Even the guys I talked to at the Coliseum stated as much on their own.
It’s real simple – less talented team vs. team with emotion issues….which do you pick? I pick the former and I think most people would. It all comes down to whether or not USC really does have “emotion” issues (can they regain that fire in their belly). We’ll find out Nov.28, but it sounds like you don’t buy into it at all. That’s fine dude. No biggie. But don’t think for a second I come here to ruffle feathers on purpose with an “outrageous” statement. Ain’t my style. I understand that I’m a visitor here.
by BruinFan1 on Nov 15, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well if you are so confident in a other people ( who you don't have control over) then make a trip to Vegas and bet the 10 dollars you got Ruin.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 5:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obliviously you have never played competitive Sports, so go back to your games gamer!
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 5:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So whose bench did you warm
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 15, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! I was lucky to warm one.
Ever see a brown dude play bball? There’s a reason why! We’re short M Fers.
by BruinFan1 on Nov 15, 2009 11:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah some of my best friends are brown dudes, and black ones too.
Remember not only did I play college tennis, but JC basketball two and the team had a very good mix of race. In fact my college doubles partner and friend to this day is a Mexican American. Also Lo Romar was a guy that I must have played countless 2 on 2 games with.
Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 16, 2009 2:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like I picked the right game to skip in order to chill with the kids. I followed the score and some of the game thread, and it makes me nervous when I hear that the players are drifting, in terms of motivation and so on.
At this point, the fact that the playbook was more open than usual is a good sign. Between the tackling skill issues and the injuries on defense, I’m wondering if maybe the next few weeks are just a question of hanging on for dear life and working in the offseason.
It seems a little impatient to can Bates, and I know it doesn’t mesh well with the habit of giving young guys a chance, but it’s fair to ask if there might be someone who can scheme better and mesh better with Ruel et al.
I don’t know, I really don’t. I don’t especially want to pile on because I imagine that the coaches and the players are feeling like shit at the moment, and some middle-aged bloke 3000 miles away who didn’t even watch the game isn’t a good source of anything. I said it after Oregon, and I’ll say it again – I believe they have it within them as a total team to turn this around, if only for next fall. I hope they can.
by DC Trojan on Nov 14, 2009 10:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully we can pull a Florida
Not too long ago, Tebow had a less-then-stellar season as Florida’s starting QB. I believe the lost to Michigan in the Mieneke Bowl. They came back and won it all the following year. Let’s hope the same can happen for us!
by spn168 on Nov 14, 2009 11:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's time to put together another coaching Dream Team
The Bates/Morton experiment needs to be dumped, and we need to bring in a rising star college OC like this guy. On defense, the simple solution would be to bring back Ed Orgeron, he’s an unbelievable recruiter and knows how to put fire in the bellies of young men, and he recruits like the devil. Tennessee is a grease fire now, so it would be the ideal tome to welcome back Coach O.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 14, 2009 11:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or even Frank Cignetti, he’s got plenty of NFL experience and was a great OC at Cal last year, but took the job at Pitt for less money.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 15, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t necessarily call Cignetti “great” at Cal last year. Many of us were happy to see him go. He and Tedford weren’t on the same page with QB development and it really seemed to show. That and the play calling didn’t help make our offense any less stagnant. I have no ill will towards the guy: I’m happy to see him doing so well with Stull and Pitt, but I’m glad he’s no longer with Cal.
Whose domicile? OUR DOMICILE!
by Berkelium97 on Nov 15, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
does anyone know if there is any audio of pete and jim during there hand shake? Anyone know what they said ?
by Dodgermanramon on Nov 15, 2009 12:03 AM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

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