Let's not become Florida State

by DC Trojan on Nov 2, 2009 5:07 AM PST Comment 16 comments

Bumped...DC is too modest not to have put this on the front page. - P

I've been struck by some of the reactions I've seen on last night's game because they brought to mind a Wall Street Journal article from a few years ago that ranked college programs based on the number of players that they put in the NFL. Florida State was one of the highest ranked at the time, but the article noted that the team had started to get worse results because their habit of recruiting top-notch athletes and having them just flat outplay the opposition was no longer working as well.

Then I thought about the tendency of Bobby Bowden to keep coaching in-house, culminating in re-hiring Chuck D'Amato, and Mickey Adams complaining the other week because it was getting harder to set up good defensive schemes that the opposition couldn't get past.

Any of this sound superficially similar to where SC is right now on the coaching side of life? I don't know what Pete Carroll and the other coaches have in mind for the rest of the season, for the recruiting trail, and next year, but I sure hope it isn't just doubling down on what's worked before.

It's not the general attitude that I'm worried about. Pete Carroll has said a lot about how he had an epiphany about what his philosophy was, and I've always taken that to be the focus on a positive outlook and accountability. That is absolutely worth preserving - but let's see these kids play like they really think they're having to earn something on every play. And let's give them some new schemes to work with, so that they aren't trying to outplay people whose coaches are out-thinking them. There's no point in McKnight getting better at interior running and ball protection, or Bradford emerging as a real threat, if we can't keep the opposition from stacking the line against the run every time.

Sarkisian and Holt know how Pete Carroll thinks. Riley is coaching up Oregon State every year and has our number on offense. And Chip Kelly is showing just how much Oregon had to gain by Bellotti moving on, and how much mileage can be gained from creativity on offense.

Pete Carroll has given so much to us as USC fans, it kills me to even suggest that there's a need for some changes in how the team plays. But whether you want to characterize it as the rest of the conference catching up, or the Trojans being on a glide path, it sure looks like it's time to mix it up. I'd hate to see us end up like Florida State, still getting good athletes but having erratic results and a legendary coach staying too long.

Is it presumptuous of me to write the headline that I did? Sure, inasmuch as I'm not part of the team and for all I know this could just be an aberration. But recurring patterns rarely resolve themselves. I also know that the coaches and the players have it in them to prove me wrong. Here's hoping they can figure it out together.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors.

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by Paragon SC on Nov 1, 2009 4:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Great point!

PC said during his first year that “if this was going to be his last coaching job, then he was going to do it his way.” After letting Norm Chow implement the West Coast and train offensive assistants Kiff and Sark to run it, PC’s way worked beautifully. With all of the success, it is easily understandable how and why he would continue to tighten his grip on the program. And, of course, we never would have had this incredible run if not for PC’s tight grip.

But, he’s going to have to loosen the reins this offseason to adapt to the times. He has brought in some fresh blood, like Jeremy Bates. Let’s just hope that he lets Bates and Morton make real changes this offseason. Not sure about defense, but I do believe that PC/Seto/Norton can innovate from within.

The Florida St story is one that USC should heed with caution. When you are green you are growing; when you are ripe you are rotting. PC needs to keep things fresh.

by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 5:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Awesome Comparison

This is great stuff DC. Paragon, is this front page stuff? In any case, wow, what an insightful post. Nicely done.

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 8:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The one challenge is the Penn State one.

They do a lot of the same things they’ve been doing for a lot of years, and keep putting up good teams.

Change for Change sake is not the way to go. Change to get better, yes.

Go Bears Go

by Rocksanddirt on Nov 2, 2009 8:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It’s a fair point. Paterno has had some down years and was given the time to work through them, but I don’t know that there are many other coaches who own a program to the extent that he does and would get that kind of time.

(Frankly, I’d not want to be the one to tell him to hang it up.)

Wholesale change has the potential to be an awful idea – you could end up like Michigan, trying to work through a complete change in coaching philosophy. That wouldn’t help SC much. But there’s things that local writers and fans have been noticing for a while that could be addressed and possibly help the team that way.

by DC Trojan on Nov 2, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they fall into the Florida St category

Yes, they have been pretty good the last few seasons. But, Penn St used to be a natl championship contender every year. Now, they have lowered expectations to keep things the same. The program has been “stale” for a few decades.

The result: 3 conference championships in the last 20 years.

by DFWTrojan on Nov 2, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto

Except Penn St hasn’t produced as many NFL players as Florida St.

I think all football programs fall in this trap eventually. The question is: Will PC will be able to break the mold?

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 2, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"having them just flat outplay the opposition was no longer working as well."

Hasn’t this been the reason behind our last 3 losses? We showed up to Oregon St, UW and Oregon thinking we could win them all on talent alone. In Oregon St and Oregon we got out coached at every turn, and at UW we watched as the team failed to make any adjustments or changes and instead hope for the big play that would put us back on top.

Too be honest since Leinart, Bush et al left this seems to be our MO, show up, hope to dominate early, panic when we fall behind and try for the big play instead of making the small adjustments. No longer does the team come out in the second half and erase all questions raised in the first half. This hasn’t happened on a consistent basis in over 3 years now.

It’s embarrassing. PC seems so pigheaded about it too. His way worked for awhile but everyone else caught up and caught on and he refuses to adjust. It frustrates me to no end to watch us over pursue on defense, to have such undisciplined line play, to see Taylor Mays whiff on a failed big hit when a simple pass deflection or wrap up tackle would’ve sufficed.

Something needs to change.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Nov 2, 2009 11:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm disappointed with DC over this one.

This looks like more “sky is falling” hyperbole to me. The comparison to FSU is a huge stretch and really not justified in a season where the team is still in the hunt for a BCS bowl.

oc phil

by oc phil on Nov 2, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The comparison

I think the comparison is more about long term outlook rather than this loss has sent us in a downward spiral. As consistent as SC has been over the last 4 seasons, we still haven’t won a national championship in that time (a little of that due to the BCS, East Coast bias, etc….but mostly with the onus on USC). We’ve enjoyed an incredible streak, much like FSU did in the 90’s, but one has to wonder if the poor showing (let’s be honest, the poorest showing ever by a PC coached team) against Oregon is a chink in the armor.

FSU didn’t crumble in a year – they had a slow and steady downfall. I think the point of this post was that USC should be wary of a similar fate, and take action to “right the ship”….before it’s too late. Of course, we’ll not truly realize if we’ve suffered the same fate as FSU until years from now, when it is already too late.

And if we bounce back next year w/ a more experienced D, Golden Boy Barkley in Heisman consideration, another BCS bowl and a top 4 finish, this season will most likely be looked at as a bump in the road, instead of the crossroads that some are portending it to be. We can only hope so.

by FightOn09 on Nov 2, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can see how you would interpret it that way, but rest assured that I’m not running around flapping my arms while screaming that the world is coming to an end.

Part of what I do for a living is look for where there are recurring problems and try and figure out whether these issues are just the nature of the work, or indicative of a deeper issue. It’s a given that a college football team is going to have a loss in a given number of games, and it’s possible that this weekend’s result just happened to be an outlier in terms of the severity of the loss. Mitigating factors could include the relative inexperience of certain members of the defense and injuries on both sides of the ball, the need to have the safeties bail out the linebackers on run defense opening up passing opportunities for Oregon.

However, you could also argue that some elements of this weekend’s results have been multiple games or seasons in the making – linebackers who overpursue, soft secondary coverage, heavy dependence on the full back or tight end as a means of gaining yards against heavy running defense and close defense of wide receivers, persistent issues dealing with running quarterbacks, etc.

It may be that this is just a run of bad luck in terms of experience and health, but I’d be happier if I saw the coaching resulting in more adjustments on the field. I’d hate to see a glide path being the default reaction because it represents what worked before.

The main thing is time. SC could lose to ASU and it might not be for long term, structural issues – it could be a result of a team with motivation issues and a lot of injuries, and those are specific, point-in-time problems.

Trust me, I’m not panicking. But I do have questions about how things are going to play out over time.

by DC Trojan on Nov 2, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you DC

Part of the problem is that the entire Pac 10 knows USC’s tendencies. We have a lot of talent, but Oregon has a lot of talent on offense as well. It took a while for the rest of the conference to catch up to us, but it has happened. We all knew that the gap between us and the others would shrink, and we all knew that someday we wouldn’t win the Pac-10. Its ok. 9 or 10 wins, with a true freshman at the helm, is a very good outcome.

by frak on Nov 3, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When your opponents know your schemes as well as...

you do, then here is a novel idea: CHANGE THINGS UP. See Texas and their offense this season. Must give Kudos to Mack Brown and Muschamp for being so damn proactive.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-t25-texas-offense&prov=ap&type=lgns

by DFWTrojan on Nov 3, 2009 9:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

BRING BACK COACH O!!

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 3, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Their offense sure looked good against the only real defense they faced this season...

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Nov 3, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I guess you can say that but I think the toughest thing is that Pete has never been through this before.

1) Losing Top coaches almost every year since 2003 hasn’t help.
2) Having 3 coaches go to Washington and not thinking they were good enough
3) 5 and 4 star players also need direction, but what direction is a ?
4) Pete needs to wake up his defensive mind and start looking at a non zone attitude
5) USC will have the same good players next year so why can’t PC let them cover Man on the spread.

LETS Face It Pete needs to use his coaches or take the results he always said he loves college ball because he can get the players he wants.

Well you got those player now so GET OF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING

Please don't tell me what to do or think, what I might say is a personal opinion.

by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 6, 2009 1:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs