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No longer the Premier Program of the Pac-10?

Edited below the fold...P

Here are some interesting observations from today's OCR... (I broke these down into paragraphs)

USC is no longer the premier program in the Pac-10.

USC is no longer the hip, cool program on the West Coast. You can’t stay hip and cool when you get rolled over for 613 yards total offense and completely embarrassed on national television no matter how many times Pete Carroll goes to the Michael Jackson film. This Is It?

This is the new reality in the Pac-10: Oregon had better talent and was better coached. The Trojans will rebound, the remaining schedule all but guarantees it, although a December 5 game at Arizona could be problematic, especially if the Trojans don’t solve their numerous problems on defense.

But USC program will have a harder time recovering from Saturday night’s debacle. The program where image is everything all of sudden has a major image problem and the whole country knows it. The Ducks shattered USC’s aura of invincibility with opposing teams and just as importantly with recruits.

Sure Matt Barkley is only a fresham. But so is Oregon tailback LaMichael James. The Ducks also get quarterback Jeremiah Masoli back next year. Oregon has two tailbacks better than anyone at Tailback U. even without LeGarrette Blount, although Joe McKnight could probably start for UCLA. And Oregon isn’t the only Pac-10 school that has closed the talent gap.

Jacquizz Rodgers and Mike Riley will both be back at Oregon State next year. Arizona and Stanford both have talented young quarterbacks. Washington is on the rise with Steve Sarkisian. The Trojans will contend for the Pac-10 title in 2010 but USC’s complete dominance of the league, a dominance unmatched in conference history, is over.

Hmmm...

Star-divide

I guess I can see where they are going with this but I think they are a little too premature in this.

There is no question that the rest of the Pac-10 has gotten better. It is clear that that Oregon has gained the most and if you want to equate last nights win over USC as dethroning USC then I can see where they are trying to go.

But...

A win does not a dynasty make.

I don't think anyone is ready to crown the Ducks as the new kings of the Pac-10 just because they beat USC. They haven't won anything yet.

Do I like their chances?

Yes, I do. But lets see them seal the deal first. I have seen this movie before. It wasn't too long ago that they had the BCS Title game in their sights and it blew up on them.

Because USC has been so dominant and because they have been so successful a loss like last nights sends a resounding thud throughout the college football world. Oregon may win the Pac-10 this year but USC is set up pretty good in 2010 with all those tough games at home. If Oregon wins this year and USC wins next year then what? I realize that is long way out but you can tell by the tone of many stories I have read that the punditry is tired of USC and they are happy to dance on our graves.

That would be a mistake...

Harbaugh was the toast of the town after beating USC and he hasn't done much since.

Sarkisian is getting a lot of love but they still have a long way to go. We know Sarkisian and Holt first hand and while beating USC was a nice win for them Sarkisian and Holt showed some bad habits against ND and ASU respectively..they haven't shown us anything yet...the only way they could go is up.

Cal is still Cal. As much I respect their fanbase Tedford still hasn't got it done...and that window is closing on him.

Mike Stoops looks to be having a nice run this season but he has folded in the past so I will wait and see...

ASU? Erickson has seen his better days in the rear view mirror. Though, he did get a nice LB in Burfict.

WSU and ucla? Right...

I do like what Oregon has done. Nice facilities, plenty of money, a solid fan base and a coach that looks like he will finally seal the deal for the Ducks, but if Oregon is going to be the next "premier" program in the Pac-10 they are going to have show all of us that they can sustain it. SC has done that and then some. You can pump all the Nike money you want into a program but you still have to win titles. One Pac-10 title and trip to a BCS bowl is not going to be enough...even savvy Duck fans will tell you that. ucla loves to point to 13-9 but they still have NOTHING to show for it. Oregon will not be happy with one Pac-10 title...

The rumors of USC's demise is greatly exaggerated.

People need to understand that...

One loss does not spell the demise of a program.

EDIT: Here is Doc Saturday's take...

These are the Ducks that were steaming toward the Pac-10 championship and a likely national title shot after beating the Trojans in 2007 before an ACL injury to prolific quarterback Dennis Dixon submarined the season and left the crown for USC to assume again. Three years in a row now, we've seen Chip Kelly's spread option offense at its nightmarish pinnacle for short stretches, and it firmly established itself as the dominant entity the conference Saturday night.

Like I said We have seen this movie before so I will wait before jumping on the Ducks bandwagon.

I do agree with this though...(emphasis mine)

But clearly these are not the same Trojans, and it seems impossible to imagine going on pretending that they are. USC has enough talent to rebound and finish this season in dominating reminiscent of its recent, dominating past, and to come back strong enough to reassume its West Coast crown again next year. But the assumption is gone, the aura totally obliterated by a stumpy JUCO transfer with a somewhat suspect arm. If USC is going to be considered the unquestioned Pac-10 overlord again, its going to have to earn it back by consistently performing like the old USC again, and that standard is no longer within reach in 2009.

Agreed!

SC no longer has the luxury of just getting it done on its good name alone. Pete Carroll is at a crossroads...he can suck it up and make some big changes in the coaching staff and defensive scheme (and the offensive scheme too) or he can hang on to the past and hope for the best. The latter he does at his peril. The former will give him a lot of good will and patience from the fan base. He doesn't have to do much...just plug up the middle on defense and mix it up with some of the new offensive twists out there.

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It always sucks when your team looses and it suck even more when they loose like they dic last night. But its only one game I still think this team has the players and staff to be a great team. They have 4 games left plus a bowl game to prove to everyone that this Trojan dynasty is not going anywhere. I’m vary confident that this team will win out and end the regular season at 10 and 2 play in a bowl game that they will use to spring them into next season as an elite team. I know its tough to think about a 10 and 2 season as a great or even a good season but that is what happens when you have such high expectations but I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m proud of our Trojans and I believe they will continue to be the best team in the PAC 10 and one of the best teams in the nation. USC isn’t going anywhere even the great ones have a bad day Fight On

by Dodgermanramon on Nov 1, 2009 2:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

well its about time

the teams in the pac 10 caught up to USC… now we will have real battles and it will be more interesting to watch rather then all these one sided USC kilings

by matthewmafa on Nov 1, 2009 2:36 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I was okay with the uninteresting games ;)

by DC Trojan on Nov 1, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Me too. The sheer boredom of Leinart, Bush, Sanchez, Maualuga and Cushing was the best boredom I ever knew.

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I prefer blowouts

so long as SC is doing the blowing out — If I want to see a close game I’ll watch two teams I don’t care about.

by ilium55 on Nov 1, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Solid analysis

the key word you mention is “sustain.” Several times over the course of the USC run USC has lost and put other contenders in position to win the conference, and in each case the other team has simply failed to win out. USC has won several titles because after stumbling, they were ble to regroup and win out the rest of the way (2006 being the exception and I forget who managed to choke away the Pac-10 title that season.) The loss demonstrates nothing regarding the Pac-10’s premier team-that is USC-but it does demonstrate that this year USC is not the best team in the conference (assuming that Oregon wins out or only loses one the rest of the way.) USC will continue to be the premier team for the foreseeable future, although the end of their perpetual domination appears to be in sight.

by ucladj89 on Nov 1, 2009 4:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

ChowForTrojans.com

Or HireChow.com or BringBackChow.com . . . starting one of these Web sites is kinda tempting. Talk about giving some spread looks to the SC offense, he would be the man. And maybe a D coordinator who doesn’t just say “Yes Coach.”

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 4:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

ABSOLUTELY. COMPLETELY. IRREVOCABLY. NUNCA.

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 8:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn, all caps! :)

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My amigo DFW keeps dreaming the impossible dream too!

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha, just making my point

…that our offensive system places too much responsibility on 20 year old QBs, and we need to reinstall some West Coast passing game. I know Norm isn’t coming back. I wish our new playcaller had broader experience than the Broncos pro-style offense, however.

by DFWTrojan on Nov 2, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

:) I don’t want to give BN another site to surf while they’re supposed to be watching their Bruin games. Conquest Chronicles is enough of a distraction for them.

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But

OK then my all-caps friends, give me another name besides Chow. Morton and Bates do it for you?

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Barkley seems to be doing very very well under Bates. Playcalling could be better, but Pete has a hand in that too.

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

USC - Total Offense #28, Scoring Offense #37

Chalk it up to a frosh QB, if you will. But, with arguably the strongest offensive line in the country and an A-list of skill players, this is a major underperformance in my book.

by DFWTrojan on Nov 2, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No argument there,

the offensive scheme has left much to be desired. I’d like to think that Bates will learn and evolve, we’ll know a lot more in just two weeks. If he sucks I’ll be right there with you screaming bloody murder!

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 2, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The offense certainly isn't the biggest problem this team has

Red zone scoring is still an issue but would be lessened if the defense could stop anybody.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Nov 2, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

End of An Era?

I could see it. This win could have long-term ramifications. If Oregon takes advantage and finishes strong, then they should have significant recruiting momentum this offseason. This wasn’t the close, heartbreaking loss to which we are accustom where a crucial mistake or two cost us the game. This was a behind the woodshed ass-beating on national TV. And, this Oregon team doesn’t look to me like the once a decade, superman player leads team on historic run (Dennis Dixon), flash in the dark Oregon team of 2007. This is Chip Kelly’s first year as head coach. Masoli is coming back. This Oregon team looks like one built for a multi-year run of their own.

In chaos lies opportunity. I have heard PC say that every offseason his staff reviews their peers and and the landscape, looking for interesting new innovations and schematics to study for possible implementation. A best of breed standards review, if you will. Let’s hope that PC has some stability among his assistants this offseason, and that they seriously consider an overhaul of both our defensive and offensive schemes. Per the Wolfman, it is now only 11 times in the last 33 games against PacX opponents that USC has scored more than 30 points. USC has not finished in the top 10 of a major offensive category since 2005. This despite having arguably the most offensive talent on the field year after year.

No, this wasn’t one of those losses that was bound to happen eventually simply due to the law of probability. This loss was symptomatic of a deeper deficiency that has been building in the program since 2005. Too much assistant turnover, too few experienced assistants hired, and too little innovation. When you are green you are growing, when you are ripe you are rotting. The great coaches in the PacX know our schemes too well. Offensive systems have evolved significantly over the last 5 years. PC needs to adapt to a changing game this offseason or risk chasing Oregon for the next few years to come.

by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 5:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes this our worst loss in awhile

But there was a time not too long ago when UF went 9-4 and lost to Michigan. This loss is a wake up call if anything. I think that next year they will have a chip on their shoulder to get the PAC-10 title back and with a much easier schedule, they can go undefeated. Hell, we beat them 44-10 last year and everyone expects that. We lose to them bad this year and now everyone is going crazy saying this is the end. I still like our chances to go 11-2 and this with them a true freshman qb. I have faith that Pete will get it done next year.

by FozzyTheGamer on Nov 1, 2009 7:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I was one of many that expected three loses this year

at tOSU, ND, and Oregon. The die was cast when Mark Sanchez decided to go, but it was already a very tall order with our entire linebacker corps leaving and further complicated by the recruiting debacles with Teo, Burfict, and poor Frankie Telfort.
 
It was an unexpected surprise that we beat two of those three; and it was easy to overlook the choke job at Washington, our suspect offense and our bend but don’t break (sometimes) defense. But getting real, if we learned anything from ND and OSU it’s that our offense is not ready to close-out anybody and our linebackers are who we thought they were. And while we’re at it, I wish people would stop banging on Mays, the guy’s been reduced to acting as a backstop for the beleaguered backers. Worse, the post-Oregon injury report is devastating, with Smith out indefinitely, and Galippo and Jones in neck braces. Who knows what kind of unit we’ll be fielding at ASU.

Recruiting will be more critical than ever this off-season, there are few good LB prospects in-state, and if last winter is any indication we may be in for more disappointment. PC has gotten older and some of the magic and coolness has faded (it was palpable at the MS departure press conference, then Barkley went and spent a day with Slick), therefore some new blood is needed pronto! I mentioned in another thread that we could really use the recruiting prowess and back to basics defensive toughness we had with Ed Orgeron. It’s time for the Kiffins to return a favor to PC.

As far as the offense is concerned, you can not beat the spread if you keep handing them the ball. When our offense stopped moving the ball we got destroyed. I’m confident that Bates will improve things in this area, and Barkley can certainly get it done. We should be able to return the favor to Oregon when they visit us next year. I’ll be there to celebrate it; for now we can celebrate that we’re not bruins.

One issue hasn’t been mentioned, and it’s our dowdy facilities. There’s a building boom going on at SC, but for some reason the football facilities are still stuck in the disco era. The plans are ready and USC can afford to fund the project, so it’s time to pull the trigger on it. As usual the donors will put up the money once they see the buildings go up.

There is absolutely no excuse for losing recruits to other schools due to them having better facilities; furthermore, in honor of Stafon we should strive to set a new standard in safety. The facility should be Steven Sample’s parting legacy to the Univeristy, and it should carry his name:

The Steven Sample – Heritage Football Center
… hmm, it has a nice ring to it!

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 8:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t know he was going to retire – we talk a lot about the run for SC football, what a run Sample’s had.

by DC Trojan on Nov 1, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's been incredible!

His retirement is scheduled for next August, the search for the next President started today.

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

With ya on the remodel/expansion of Heritage. Everything else you say too. But all roads lead to PC’s ability or inability to change and innovate. As DCTrojan implied, there’s a chance that PC will simply double down on what he’s been doing since 2005. As you said, Loco, PC is getting older and some coolness and magic may have faded – getting older sometimes means getting really really set in your ways.

We’ll know the answer by the end of spring camp 2010. Pete the Proactive Innovator or as DC also brought up, Pete the next Bobby Bowden.

Put DC’s post on the front page!

by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW, Pete has always prided himself for being on the cutting edge, but then there’s that problem with believing one’s own bullshit vs. the truth. We’ll find out way sooner than spring camp.

¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa

by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts from a Duck

As far as I’m concerned, USC is still the premier program in the Pac-10—-just not this year. If someone other than USC wins the conference in 2010, then, maybe, we can start talking about the Trojans’ run being over. But one season doesn’t kill a dynasty any more than one game does.

We got you this year, and of course we’re enjoying the hell out of it. But let’s wait and see how it goes at your house next year before we start talking about anyone replacing USC as the top program in the conference.

Life is a sport: Watch other people play it.

by Al Orange on Nov 4, 2009 4:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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