USC 20 Oregon 47 - The Morning After...
I am going to take a couple of different paths with this post...
One of things that frustrated me about last night's loss was the lack of adjustments.
Whether it was before the game or during the game Pete Carroll has simply refused to make any adjustment away from the Tampa 2 bend don't break defense that he is so wedded to. Some of that has to do with being thin at some positions because of injury or eligibility issues, the rest is simply habit. You can never stay 100% healthy and you can’t get every recruit you covet so he has what he has…But that does not excuse the poor tackling technique and the numerous false starts that we all saw last night.
The Pac-10 has caught up to Pete Carroll in terms of how they scheme against his defenses, in how he recruits his players and they have taken advantage of how he develops his talent. Pete Carroll has always been seen as the master of adjustments but I didn't see any last night...or in the previous two games where the defense fell apart in the second half.
I guess we really shouldn't be surprised...many of us thought (myself included) that with all this talent on defense we would be able to keep the defensive production respectable even as we lost all that talent on defense to the NFL. I did not think that we would simply pick up where we left off after the win over Penn St. but I also didn't think that ANY Pete Carroll defense would get schooled like they did last night. Stated differently, I knew we would have some growing pains and maybe a few tough losses but not the type of performances that we have seen the last three Saturdays.
It makes me wonder...with all this talent is Pete Carroll really managing it effectively? Zoulou made a great point in his commnet in the post game thread...
If Galippo is the best LB recruit since the famous haul of 2005, then we are in a world of hurt for the next two years because Malcolm Smith is too small at the point of attack and Gallippo isn’t big enough to get off block or go around them. Morgan does what is does, he is servicable, but if your MLB and your SLB can’t make plays, the cover two is in trouble.
Yeap...PC has not adjust his schemes to match his talent. And the talent he has is not as aggressive as we have seen in the past. I could take Rey overrunning some plays because I knew he would come back and smash someone in the mouth. Galippo has that ability but for some reason he isn't doing it like we saw early on. We used to see Morgan blitz from the outside all the time early on but that has been lost too.
Unfortunately, PC is forever wedded to the Tampa 2 regardless of the talent. That’s fine, but if you don't tweak it here or there you live by it and you die by it. If PC wants to keep the play in front of the defense by using a soft zone then he better make damn sure that his players can tackle the ball carrier. This has been one thing that has been so alarming on this defense...we saw it bit last year but this is just unreal. USC's defense looked like ucla out there last night with their poor tackling. PC has relied too much on the stout play of the defensive line instead of blitzing more to confuse the QB. Because of the early success of the D line PC got complacent by not bringing Taylor Mays in from his center field position for run support or for blitzing, making Mays pretty easy to scheme against and now we see the result.
You can also see it when the LB's are backing off the LOS making it easier for the QB to take off and scramble...especially one like Masoli. Keeping the CB's off the receiver 5-8 yards allows the QB to make quick throws. Why not man up the receiver off the line every so often just to keep him honest? Especially if you do not want to bring Mays up for run support...he can back up the CB's as very little is going to get past him with his speed.
Now with all that being said...
It is fair to criticize and analyze last night's loss but people also need to have some perspective
Lono over on WeAreSC let me use this...
I am also going to use his words...
ALL OF THEM!
When we lost 10-11 guys to the NFL, folks believed "we'll just reload."
Those guys included arguably the greatest linebacking corps ever. Maualuga, Cushing, Matthews and Maiava. All doing great in their first years as pros.
The weakest part of this year's defense? I would beg to say linebackers.
Oh and another guy, Mark Sanchez left. We have a freshman quarterback taking his place.
We also lost Kevin Ellison (pros) and Shareece Wright (ugh).
To date this year, we have lost Stafon Johnson, Loni Fangupo and Marc Tyler.
We were without the services of McCoy, Havili, Ausberry and Patterson. Kris O'Dowd, the centerpiece of the O'line still is battling injury and did not even play. Brian Baucham is still hampered. Adam Goodman has been out.
Again, our linebacking corps is thin, and we are battling injury there.
If some of you think coaching can overcome this, you need to turn in your gameboys and x-boxes, because there is a bit called reality here.We are very short on manpower.
And if you use the 'we are more talented than they are' cop-out, tell me, are Carswell, D.J. Shoemate and Ayles better than the folks they are replacing? Are they equal to the folks they are replacing? Are they even close to being Ausberry, Havili and McCoy? The answer is NO.Oh yeah, this 'reloading' thing is so last year.
The Trojans are rebuilding this year. Get used to it.
Before the season started I put up a thread that we were going to lose 3 games.
Guess what?
No other program can make those claims!
For as pissed off as we get about these types of things think about the 118 other schools that can't even sniff those accomplishments listed above.
Sure Florida has two crystal balls but Urban Meyer has not come close to PC's accomplishments. Very few teams schedule, recruit and produce the results that USC has in the past 5 years.
WE ARE THE DOMINANT PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY!
That doesn't guarantee that our team won't play poorly at times. It doesn't guarantee that we won't get beat bad like we did last night...but it does mean that SC has set the standard that everyone has either tried to emulate or catch up to. Watch those clowns across as they can't even get out of their own way week in and week out and then tell me how bad last night was.
The injuries are a problem for us, but other schools have injury problems as well. It just goes to show us that depth is still the key to a successful program but it is a tough thing to manage. Players still need to develop and that takes some time...anyone remember Rey and Cush against Texas?
We should question some of things that we have ween the past few weeks. But USC can't be dominant like this forever. I agree with Lono that this is our re-tooling year. We have the talent we just have to develop it and PC has gone a little off track of late. I suspect he will right the ship.
I also agree with Zoulou...PC has been so good at recruiting top talent that sooner or later some of these guys just are not going to come this way because we have TOO MUCH talent. The linebacker corps is the perfect example of that.
Calling out Seto like I have seen in a few places is so way off base that it is hilarious. This is PC's defense, he calls the shots. He is also the final say on the offense...he is not yet ready to let Bates and Morton do it all by themselves so this is all on him and he will be roundly criticized for it. But if you think there is someone out there who could produce these same results you better call Garrett and Sample.
It is a crappy feeling for all of us to see this team get beat like a drum last night but it is only one game. There have been some close calls this season and this time it caught up to us. So, the team has to start all over again and focus on ASU. I may be disappointed about the performance of the past few games but I really could not be happier with the over all package that we have all enjoyed the past 8 seasons.
We should question Carroll for some of what we have seen but we should also trust him in how he addresses it, he has much more information than we have and he knows a lot more than any of us ever will regardless of his stubbornness not to change.
I AM STILL IN!!
FIGHT ON!
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18 comments
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Comments
No Top 10 Offense Since 2005
Many predicted 2-3 losses this season, and a 10-2 finish with a possible BCS at large or Holiday Bowl is not a bad result for this team. Our conference streak HAD to end eventually. The Ducks deserve the conference championship this season.
While most are picking on the obvious – the defense, I’ll say that our biggest weakness is an antiquated offensive system. The spread offensive system has evolved to a point where it is ahead of even the best defensive systems. USC has not had a top 10 offense since 2005, when after that season, PC lost Kiffin and officially threw out our short passing game implemented by Norm Chow.
Our pro-style offense is antiquated and puts too much pressure on the QB. The pro-style offense does not exploit mismatches, or leverage our speed and athletic ability. The pro-style offense allows the defense to keep too many players in the box and impedes the ability to surprise and deceive defenses.
USC only scored 3 points in the 2nd half against the Ducks. USC punted 6 times in 11 drives against a Duck defense full of Frosh and Sophs in the secondary.
The defense can be fixed. We are thin and inexperienced at LB. We are beat up on the DL interior, with Fangupo out and Tupou and Spicer injured. However, the offenses inability to put big points on the board with an incredible level of offensive talent is USC’s biggest weakness. We will not make it to another BCS title game until PC overhauls our offensive philosophy and incorporates more of a spread passing attack. The offense needs to evolve. Hopefully, this game will serve as a wake-up call to PC to do just that in the offseason.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 8:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
This pretty closely echoes my feelings. Don’t forget that recruiting went a bit awry at Linebacker, losing out on Teo to ND, Burfict to grades, and the other fellow to that heart problem.
I cannot agree about the offense. The spread is a gadget offense, look at what happened to Oregon with Dixon, when a gadget breaks the team collapses. Our offense has struggled this year, but don’t forget we are starting a freshman, breaking in a new coordinator, and playing one of the most poorly conceived schedules in recent memory. Oregon on Halloween? Good Idea? It was like that Thursday game at Oregon state. Probably the best thing that could happen is an expansion of the Pac 10, where we could have a system more like the SEC, where USC simply does not have to play in the Northwest all that often. We could add some reliably easy teams to the schedule.
Sure that game was atrocious. One of the worst defensive efforts I have ever seen, but we should not lose sight of all the great football PC’s teams have played. When I opened up my paper this morning I saw a flyer for 2 for 1 Bruins tickets for the Washington game — there but for the grace of Pete go we.
by ilium55 on Nov 1, 2009 9:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Gimmick
Just put up 47 points and 600 yards against a very athletic, fast defense. I would use a spread passing attack, just like we used with Norm. See OU for the best example in today’s college environment. JDB didn’t win any Heismans, nor Sanchez. But, Bradford did.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 9:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
JDB deserved no heismans
he was not that caliber of player. Don’t forget the pro style put a few points on Penn State, Oklahoma, Illinois etc over the years. I have no problems spreading a team out — I’m just not ready to go to a spread option like Oregon, Florida etc.
by ilium55 on Nov 1, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OU 50+ was a spread
I think we are getting confused on nomenclature. Maybe someone with more technical football schematic understanding than I can interject. There is the spread option, run by Oregon and Florida. This is very close to a single wing offense with the QB as the primary runner (Florida). Then, there is the short passing game/ball control offense run with 3 and 4 receiver sets, trip sets, shotgun QB, etc. This offense still uses a passing, rather than a running QB. This offense is really the West Coast invented by Bill Walsh. Florida will run this offense next season with their pocket passer back-up post-Tebow. OU runs the West Coast beautifully with a healthy Bradford.
USC used the West Coast passing game with Norm Chow, and that is how we put up +50 on OU to win our BCS championship. I read that PC wanted to move to the pro-style/play action exclusively in 2005, but Matt Leinart talked him into keeping the short passing West Coast offense.
Since 2006, USC has run a pro-style, play action offense exclusively with a zone blocking scheme and the QB under center. The offense has underperformed ever since, while offensive systems in college football have evolved tremendously I’m not talking about moving to a spread option; rather, I would like to see the West Coast passing attack of 2002-2005.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JDB was an excellent college QB
Easily good enough to win a BCS championship with. Our system just put too much pressure on him. If you are saying that only a Matt Leinart can win championships, then you are dead wrong. Look at some of the QBs who have one championships….Matt Flynn, Jason White, etc.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of the QB's in the Pete Carroll Years
I think Booty was the least effective. Leinart, Palmer, Sanchez, even Barkley had something in them that enabled them to rally a squad, and get them moving when faced with adversity, Booty did not. Could he have won a national title? Sure — he was one missed extra point away from one in that Stanford game. Also I don’t believe that White won a championship — he lost 2 in a row — it was Heupel or Hibbel or whatever that guys name was that won at Oklahoma
by ilium55 on Nov 1, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's right, Heuppel
I guess that’s what I am trying to say. With our pro-style offense, we are only explosive offensively when we have 1st round NFL talent at QB. Other college offenses can be explosive with JC QBs with no NFL potential. Our offense puts too much pressure and responsibility for executing a complex system solely on the QBs shoulders.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Spread vs. Pro Style
The thing about Pete’s pro style offense is he uses it as a recruiting tool….“Our system is similar to what everyone in the NFL is running….see how many of our guys get drafted?” Now, the NFL has started picking up some elements of the spread, and it could be that in 5 years, it will take over the NFL….but for now, Pete seems too stubborn to jump to a new system just because “everyone else is doing it.” At least until the translation to the NFL starts showing diminishing returns with players getting drafted (which is unlikely for a loooong time).
As great as I’m sure he thinks his defensive mind is, he needs to consult w/ some other coaches and D-coordinators in the offseason to figure out how to defend the spread properly. Whether or not he wants to adopt it on offense is one debate – what is not debatable is that SC will have to face more of the spread each year, and that we are already ruefully behind in being able to defend it.
by FightOn09 on Nov 1, 2009 9:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ok CC, but . . .
Props to Pete. Props to all we owe him. I love him. We are where we are because of him. I bought his DVD and I watch it every other week. He has been a unique godsend. I NEVER want any other coach than Pete Carroll.
But what kind of team will we see from PC the next 10 years? Continued success requires timely and effective adaptation to the context in which you play. PC hasn’t won because of adaptation. He’s won because he was an insanely talented recruiter who could exhort those recruits to the maximum level of their ability to make the NFL style work in the BCS.
Half the NFL or more owes a huge debt of gratitude to PC. But Pete is wedded to the NFL playbook. Without an insanely high level of talent to simply out-athlete the opponent, NFL-style conservative play won’t let you sustain a high level in BCS football.
Offense: Barkley could be the last of the great NFL-style QBs at USC for a long time. And that’s if the O line can sustain the pocket well for the next 2 years. Assume they do, then Barkley could win a Heisman. Then Barkley heads off the NFL.
But so many (almost all) top-flight high schools run a version of the spread. Imagine we’re post-Barkley. Has PC ever shown an inclination – even if just a passing comment in the offseason – to open things up to the spread? His top HS QB recruiting choices are going to spend their Homecoming running the spread and be elected Prom King because they mastered it. Is PC gonna recruit a five-star spread QB and force him into the NFL-style game? Is he gonna recruit five-star linemen and force them to try to hold a pocket for 5 seconds?
Defense: Unless you got that insane level of talent, you can’t just blast forward into the line of a spread offense and expect to overwhelm them so quickly that you get there before a play develops. Because with the spread the play develops – and alters – so damn quickly.
With the PC D schemes, we’re forced to try to penetrate super quick and deep so the QB is trapped and forced into a bad throw or a sack. But no Defense can do that consistently against a spread that has high level talent. A successful D against the spread must contain the edges, keep a wall in the middle, and have tight man-to-man coverage. PC does not coach that kind of D.
I instinctively embrace your Keep Calm, Trust In Pete attitude CC. The End of an Era hasn’t necessarily arrived. But there are big warning signs flashing. The BCS world has changed and PC has to adapt.
by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 9:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
no disagreement...
I do think PC has to adapt to the times.
How he does it is on him…I am fine with a down year to retool after what we have seen but only if we get back on track.
There are a bunch of questions to be asked that I haven’t even touched on yet.
Here is a big one…
What’s up with the Linbebackers…that’s on Norton why did they all of sudden lose their aggressiveness?
PC will never go to the spread but I would agree with adding some components of it to our offense. We certainly have some speedy receiver who can work with some of those components.
The true great ones evolve…I don’t don’t think PC is in that line of thinking. It is time to shed some aspects of the Tampa 2 and adjust to teams spreading the defnse out.
This reminds me of his time with the Jets and Pats…and it could end badly if he doesn’t do something…
by Paragon SC on Nov 1, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We used a West Coast spread passing game
until 2005. Norm Chow installed the west coast offense at USC. PC completely removed the West Coast sets in 2006. He had previously removed most of the spread running plays in 2002. At least, that’s how it’s looked to me.
by DFWTrojan on Nov 1, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Booty
That’s a great point DFW . . . In spring practice 2006 didn’t PC make a point of explaining that he would use the offense best suited to the talent at hand, meaning Booty. As we all know Booty was the classic stand-in-pocket-forever QB. Since installing that Booty-oriented style, PC hasn’t changed it.
by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jets and Pats
Insightful reference points there. PC seems like he learned hard lessons in the NFL, so he should be open to evolving the Trojans.
by uscdude on Nov 1, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ok with it
Getting beaten by a superior team is easier for me to take than beating ourselves. Sure the game sucked, and I’m unhappy with the outcome, but I will never stop rooting, and supporting the Trojans. Fight on Pete. Pick up the pieces and finish the season strong.
by frak on Nov 1, 2009 10:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm still in!
I agree with Paragon’s post 100%.
One of the big problems this year is depth. The losses of McCoy and Havilli were huge for the offense. And I think our 3 LB’s are more solid than they are getting credit for, but a team needs more than 3 LB’s. I think some of the problems in the second halves of games come from not having enough quality backups to rotate in.
oc phil
by oc phil on Nov 1, 2009 10:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Two words: Ed Orgeron
Do you think Coach O loses Teo or anyone else to CW? PC is missing his closer on the recruiting trail and enforcer on the sideline. We need him back here in December, whatever it takes.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Nov 1, 2009 12:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna panic
One bad loss is not the end of the world. I always looked on this season as a no-mans land season. This was not going to be a national championship team and would be lucky to keep the Pac-10 title streak going. I thought we’d finish somewhere less than a BCS bowl and but well above .500. A 10-2 record with wins over ND and UCLA and trip to the Holiday Bowl is still a pretty good year.
by CanyonLakeHalo on Nov 1, 2009 2:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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