Hey! It's a two-fer...another misinformed "journalist"
I will make this quick...
Someone is not paying attention.
Here is the set-up...
Surely by now you've heard about what happened to Oklahoma State's Dez Bryant, the talented wide receiver who was suspended for the rest of this season for lying to the NCAA about visiting with former NFL star Deion Sanders.
In a rare NCAA move, college's governing body actually handed out a swift, harsh punishment. But in an all-too-common NCAA move, they overreacted and got it wrong.
You can see where this is going from a mile away...
Here is the hook...
Consequences and justice are two different things. Unless there's a smoking gun we don't know about, the NCAA's decision to suspend Bryant didn't make a lick of sense. The appropriate punishment for Bryant would have been a multiple-game suspension. Put that in perspective by looking atwith some recent infractions committed by college athletes. Oregon suspended LeGarrette Blount, presumably for the season, for punching another player in the face and going after belligerent fans in the crowd. The NCAA ruled Oklahoma players Rhett Bomar and J.D Quinn ineligible for a year after they knowingly took money for summer work they didn't do.
Was Bryant's lie more serious than any of those offenses? Was anyone endangered or given a competitive advantage?
[...]
It's been theorized that the NCAA made an example out of Bryant to prevent other athletes from lying to NCAA investigators, but the Bryant decision seems more about ego than deterrence.
For most college football players missing even one game is excruciating, so if Bryant were told to sit out four to six games, that would have been enough of a warning shot to other college players.
Well, if we are a nation of laws, if you lie and get caught you should pay the consequences...Right?
Here is the Sting!
But don't think the NCAA is immune to the criticism it has received for how it handles major violations committed by major programs. At this rate, the NCAA won't punish USC for the Reggie Bush and O.J. Mayo scandals until both athletes are eligible for AARP -- assuming, of course, USC is ever punished at all. Despite the fact that there's a paper trail from here to Nova Scotia that suggests USC was in the wrong, the NCAA is "still investigating."
It's decisions like the one in the Bryant case that not only make college sports a complete turnoff, but also make anyone unable to trust that the NCAA is operating in the best interest of its athletes. Suspending Bryant doesn't do anything but give college football fans one less Heisman Trophy candidate to watch. It's not like his powwow with Sanders gave the Cowboys any advantage. Bryant didn't gain anything financially, so how exactly was justice served?
I will make it easy for her...
We are not talking about the word of a couple of convicted felons like we have witnessed in the Bush & Mayo cases.
Bryant lied to the NCAA...he got caught and the NCAA acted swiftly.
I don't think it is right but he made his own bed.
I have issues with the NCAA in regards to Bush and Mayo as well. It has taken way too long for them to even send over a notice of infractions. Clearly, with the alleged "paper trail" that we have been subjected to, the NCAA could have said something...anything! Yet they haven't.
I do not know why.
The problem I have here is that this "journalist" attempts lump various infractions/punishments into the same bucket.
We all know that it is never the original crime but the cover up that nails you. That is what happened to Bryant. Right or Wrong, Good or Bad that is how it is.
The Bush and Mayo messes show that the NCAA is taking their time. Regardless of where you think this nation is headed we still do not always take the word of a convicted felon without corroboration because of the values this country was founded on.
You may think it is hokey until it happens to you.
I feel bad for Bryant but he made it easy for the NCAA even if it was just a kid who panicked.
How this has anything to do with Bush or Mayo other than the fact that the NCAA is involved is beyond me...
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25 comments
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Comments
Jemele
is not the brightest light bulb in the reporter hardware store. But, Dez really go screwed. The NCAA is corrupt.
by DFWTrojan on Oct 30, 2009 1:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree WRT Bryant, he did get screwed
I just don’t like the lumping in with Bush/Mayo while trying to make a point…and a loose one at that
by Paragon SC on Oct 30, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all poppycock to me
We don't need another Hero we got BN
by so.cal.native1952 on Oct 30, 2009 1:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A sensible Bruin comment
The reference she makes to USC is simply that the NCAA’s verdict (whatever it may be) is taking painstakingly long to get to. While people rightfully argue that the word of a felon (which I don’t believe is the case in both the Bush AND Mayo scandals) should be taken lightly, the paper trail in both cases is something that even USC fans have to admit they’d be in arms about if it was against UCLA, ND, etc.
Do USC fans really think they wouldn’t be upset if the same set of circumstances were true about both UCLA’s Basketball and Football…especially if this set of circumstances had to do with a resurging Football program that had been previously dormant? Other teams (Florida, LSU, Oklahoma, ND, etc.) who challenge USC also feel like the rules don’t seem to apply to USC. Take your USC hat off for just a moment and think about it from the other team’s perspective.
by EJBruin on Oct 30, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My only objection is the implication that USC was directly involved. The Bush case represents a substantial lapse in oversight, not least because it involved a form of corruption from non-boosters who were trying to gain a financial advantage for themselves rather than entice Reggie Bush to stay at the university. From that standpoint it was compounded by the Mayo case, in a sport that’s filthy even by comparison to all others at the high school level, and which followed after Bush at a time when the compliance people should have been on high alert.
So from that standpoint, my objection is not that people are pissed that it’s taking too long for the NCAA to come to a decision. That’s completely understandable.
My irritation is that if there was evidence of anything other than lack of oversight, the NCAA would presumably have brought the hammer down by now – but too many people are taking the conspiracy theory view that the lack of direct evidence somehow proves that USC was directly involved.
If the NCAA can show that, why haven’t they? Lord knows if that came down to be true, I’d support sanctions – not that my opinion matters.
by DC Trojan on Oct 30, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do your homework...the serach function is your friend here
Again…many of us here acknowledge that there are some form of improper benefits obtained in regards to Bush/Mayo. We have been clear that it is tough to nail SC for Bush when it was his parents that did the dirty work.
With Mayo his handler had a prior history (bad) w/SC that should have sent red flags up everywhere.
Regardless, SC will and should be subjected to some form of punishment. The question is for what infraction?
I could care less what happens at other schools…we will make note of infractions but we won’t obsess over it like they do over the other blog. No program is clean there is dirt everywhere.
As for resurging, SC was getting better before any of this was rumored to be happening. ucla fans get upset when Gilbert’s name is brought up and very few will deny that there was something shady going on, the rules were different then.
Fair warning…the following will NOT be popular…
Those who don’t acknowledge something shady may have been going on or who go on crusades to call out those who do bring it up in the press are only concerned about making sure the legacy of a very old man is protected at any cost.
by Paragon SC on Oct 30, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spring Valley, CA
Reggie’s hometown is 145 miles from Heritage Hall. The trip down there is grueling and can easily take 3 hours on a weekend. The community is a mixed bag of rag-tag rentals, sub-1000 sq.ft. bungalows, roadside bars, dollar stores and a few gas stations.
Some developers took a chance on the area and built new SFR’s and flipped others, but all the re-development was affordable housing level. Reggies parents got involved with some of those clowns, and somehow USC is supposed to be all over it?
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Oct 30, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't understand
how the university is supposed to be auditing players parents finances? How could a University know whats going on far away, especially when its against their interests. As far as Mayo — I don’t really care what happens to the basketball program, only how it effects football. They can get rid of for all I care (and I’m an alum).
by ilium55 on Oct 30, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about invasion of privacy
Lawyers would have a field day with it.
Wrt your opinion of basketball; I’m an alum too and I love our BB team almost as much as FB, those kids play hard for us and they are also Trojans. They deserve a little more respect from all of us.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Oct 30, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was amazed to read
that before Wooden’s run, USC was known as the better basketball school. Don’t get me wrong, its nice to see basketball do well. I guess with all the NCAA drama the Mayo stuff was the last thing I wanted to see.
by ilium55 on Oct 30, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically since USC ran a clean program the ruins prospered
But we all know that Woodie was good at teaching kids in his camps how to put their socks on and ty their shoes. In retrospect Sammy paid and entertained the players, keeping their young mens virtues afloat.
We don't need another Hero we got BN
by so.cal.native1952 on Oct 30, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously you are to young to understand how the world works Little Ruin
Please keep your stuff to your Ruin site
We don't need another Hero we got BN
by so.cal.native1952 on Oct 30, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take it easy...
you know the drill.
by Paragon SC on Oct 30, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I will have to stop paying the USC players and start giving money to the ucla kids so everyone is happy.
Paper trail please briun EJ produce it, I am not talking what you find on the internet or in the newspapers. I want the real ones receipts, transactions etc. Can you produce that I think NOT
Wooden didn't pay his players, why because he didn't have the money but Mr. Gilbert did.
by so.cal.native1952 on Oct 30, 2009 10:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Produce the actual receipts themselves...
please tell me that isn’t the basis of your argument. If so, then please produce the paper receipts from the allegations your making about Sam Gilbert and John Wooden. Will that happen…I think NOT.
So.cal.native…did you not notice my first post started with “Sensible”. Dial it down man. I’m not Nestor.
by EJBruin on Oct 30, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, not festor just another 102 clone. Look baby blue, just because you say you’re “sensible” doesn’t mean you are. You weren’t even around during St. John’s earthly ministry so all you know if what you’ve read on BN the LAT and from “official” sources. Now run along and tell your little friends over there how mean we are.
¡Fusílenlo, después veriguamos! - Pancho Villa
by Locoweed 1.1 on Oct 31, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right on EJ, basis of my argument PLEASE ! spoken like a true BNer
Using the words PLEASE and BASIS, typical terms in BN lore, dude we are not in a court of law it’s a freaking blog. You started the talk of USC negatives and I countered, why you ask because everyone in this world has skeletons in their closets. I will go to my Bat Cave and dig out those receipts and signed docs for you but it will take about 3 days.
Wooden didn't pay his players, why because he didn't have the money but Mr. Gilbert did.
by so.cal.native1952 on Oct 31, 2009 4:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as I know
the paper trail involving Bush is documented and was posted on Yahoo sports. It documents flights, hotel rooms, clothing, limos, and things of that nature. The house that his family moved into cannot be explained. Bush and his parents both aren’t admitting anything openly. USC is involved in the Bush case in that Bush played for USC. The only thing that I have read that might implicate the University is the accusation from a convicted felon, with an agenda, that McNair couldn’t have possible not known that Reggie was getting money after spending some time with him in San Diego. That accusation in itself is very thin. Lake also said he overheard Bush’s father talking to Pete Carroll about covering up the extra benefits. A verbal accusation from this guy involving Carroll and McNair is pretty thin in my opinion.
Mayo USC doesn’t have much of an excuse for. In my opinion we should have stayed away from him. USC and the NCAA investigated him and Guillory, and he was cleared to play by both institutions. I haven’t seen any of the hard copy evidence against Mayo. When I saw him on campus he was always riding an old beat up bicycle. The accuser cites that he owned a flatscreed TV. Well I owned an expensive television when I went to USC, so I don’t see why a TV would arouse any suspicion. Then we move on to the accusation of Floyd giving money to Guillory. I would like to not believe that this happened, but without Floyd or USC making any sort of denial, what am I supposed to think. It looks like we are waiting for the NCAA to make their move on this one.
In closing, I don’t believe that USC football is in the wrong. Reggie Bush is in the wrong. Can we separate Bush from the football program and punish Bush only? No we can’t. In the past, this is how the NCAA would have handled it. When DeShaun Foster from ucla took the free car he was suspended immediately, and the bruins didn’t have to forfeit any games in which he played.
Maybe the problems with the basketball program will cause the NCAA to drop the hammer on USC as an institution. Its difficult to say what will happen.
EJbruin, I think your initial statement that there is a paper-trail of impropriety involving USC is a little misleading. There is a paper-trail involving Reggie Bush. Your statement makes it seem like USC, or a USC booster was giving Bush the cash. I think thats what people are getting up in arms about. In both cases, elements outside the University were the ones facilitating the rule breaking, with the exception of the Floyd incident of course.
by frak on Oct 31, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trojans aren't defending Bush
But ARE defending the actions of USC staff and ARE defending USC’s compliance with all of the NCAA rules. Even with proactive institutional oversight that goes beyond the standard of care required by the NCAA, it is extraordinarily unlikely that USC staff could know what financial and real estate decisions were being made by Bush’s parents. No university’s institutional control extends to a student’s parents, nor would it be legally enforceable if the university tried to do so.
Bruins, Gators, Bears, Tigers – give up the “cheating” crap. USC football has never cheated under Pete Carroll. I dare you to refute the points I made above. If you try, you will be making arguments so weak and frivolous that if you were a lawyer you would be sanctioned for wasting the court’s time.
by uscdude on Oct 31, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would ammend your statement
USC football has never cheated, that I know of, under Pete Carroll. There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that the average fans don’t hear about. Scott Wolf has made several comments that there were players that he knew of that probably were involved in shady activities, but he couldn’t write about it because the sources were too thin, and the story couldn’t be verified through multiple sources. I personally don’t believe that any program is totally clean.
by frak on Oct 31, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on Frak, Scott Wolf the guy is a TROLL and a Pervert
Wooden didn't pay his players, why because he didn't have the money but Mr. Gilbert did.
by so.cal.native1952 on Oct 31, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wolf may be a twit
But he has more access to the program than I do. His opinions may be trollish, but I haven’t heard of any facts that he has lied about, or distorted to that degree.
by frak on Oct 31, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanket statements
Like:
“USC has never cheated under Pete Carroll” are fairly broad to be completely certain about. The truth is that you and I don’t know for sure that that statement is true. The facts that I have seen so far seem to support that Pete hasn’t cheated. So far no one has been able to show that he has broken the rules. The most that has come out are various minor and secondary violations.
by frak on Oct 31, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Astonishing!
Talk about misinformed! The original Yahoo! story provided the documentation of inappropriate benefits provided to the Bush’s by the OTHER ex-con sports agent/marketer that made Bush the highest paid athlete in amateur sports history, Michael Ornstein. Ornstein was Bush’s summer employer and a USC-certified booster. Ornstein admitted to the infractions the documentation proved in that original article. Ornstein denied an allegation made by a former business associate (NOT an ex-con) that he personally observed Ornstein paying the Bush’s one of their weekly stipends, asserting that he even loaned him some of the money to make the payment.
The documented and admitted infractions by a booster is a DIRECT involvement for which USC is fully responsible. It was USC that brought Bush to Ornstein! One might ask how it is that Heritage Hall would approve an ex-con sports agent/marketer as a certified booster. And why the university would direct their marquee player to that ex-con and then ignore both.
It is also astonishing to hear these excuses about the parents living 3 hour away. Bush was living in a plush LA condo paid for by Lake and Michaels. Bush was parking his newly acquired car — also paid for by Lake/Michaels — in the USC parking lot! Was that too far to look? Bush and the car were on the cover of a magazine devoted to classic cars. But no one at USC, not a player, a coach, a compliance officer, no one noticed where Bush was living or what he was driving to practice…for 2 years? Bush’s parents were not driving the car, they were not living in the LA condo. USC’s All-American Heisman candidate either received NO scrutiny, or the obvious was intentionally ignored. Both possibilities constitute an egregious lack of institutional control warranting serious sanctions.
How is it that no one who writes or responds to this blog knows any of this? And why are many of you still questioning Lake’s credibility when Bush has admitted in his court filings that Lake’s claims are valid? His legal position is that the Michaels confidentiality agreement (read hush money) REPAID all of Lake’s claims. Bush does not deny he received the inappropriate benefits while a player for USC; he claims to have already repaid them.
On the heels of this we find all of this repeated in the Guillory/Mayo affair. There is Guillory, actually sitting in Heritage Hall, as Mayo is faxing his LOI. It is too simplistic and convenient to blame the basketball program. Or the football program. Those programs are merely manifesting the “just win, baby,” attitude of Heritage Hall and reflected in the Trojan fan base.
In light of all of the above, why is every last one of you not outside Heritage Hall demanding heads roll and sanctions be self-imposed? Could it be that Trojans value bragging more than honor? From an outsider’s point of view, the answer to that seems as obvious as Bush’s ineligibility and USC’s culpability. Wonder not why there are so many “haters” out there; it is not inappropriate to despise the despicable. It has nothing to do with USC’s pathetic domination of the VERY PACIFIC 10 and the equally inept “Big” 10 of recent years: no fans outside of those 2 weak conferences care about that meaningless success.
You might also consider the offense fans take when the Trojan fan base widely proclaims that ALL programs are dirty. It is here in this very thread! And it is widely asserted by Trojan responses in most blogs dealing with the corruption in Heritage Hall. No. Everyone does NOT cheat. Most schools that discover they have broken rules self-report and self-impose penalties. That is the spirit of the NCAA. The members are institutions of higher learning, where ideals are promoted. They are not bastions of cheating, Trojan projections notwithstanding. The broad based animosity rightly directed at USC will cease when the school and its obnoxious posting fan base conform their behavior to the norms expected in the NCAA. Then threads such as this one will no longer pollute the intenet with self-serving misinformation and false indictments against the nation’s academic community.
by BozoBus on Nov 2, 2009 6:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nice closing argument...
Yes we are aware of Ornstein…I made my concerns about him known a while ago (use the search function).
In putting together this long diatribe you missed the main point of this post…
It wasn’t if we thought Bush/Mayo were not guilty it was calling out this clown for trying to say that NCAA was too quick in punishing Bryant while taking their time with Bush/Mayo.
I am sure that the NCAA has the same laundry list of items that you breathlessly listed above…but there are obviously some issues of credibility if it has taken this long and still not made a move on SC.
Bryant lied, he admitted and the NCAA nailed him…I don’t think its right but oh well…
USC has cooperated, one coach has lost his job, while the FB program has NEVER been connected to Bush’s alleged infractions.
As for the rest of your high minded pontificating I will only say this…
How’s the view from that ivory tower??
by Paragon SC on Nov 2, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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