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BRING BACK THE BANDS: It’s time to bring civility to the USC-UCLA rivalry

Bumped...Great take by Aeneas! - Paragon

Like many SoCal families, we are a "house divided." I come from a diehard Trojan family and my wife is a true blue Bruin, yet somehow we manage to coexist. One of our traditions has been to attend the USC-UCLA football game. We each dress in our school colors for the occasion, and our kids follow suit –one is a Trojan and the other a Bruin.

The game always brings out big emotions in everyone, and occasionally some fans get a little rough; but things got out of hand on December 2, 2006, and those that were at the Rose Bowl that evening know what I’m talking about. Perhaps it was the pent-up frustration, but the 13-9 victory wasn’t enough for many of the enraged Bruins. The verbal abuse was incessant and indiscriminate; equally directed at men, women, and children with complete abandon. As she held my arm; my wife in UCLA garb, kids in tow, was called a "condom lover" by some pathetic excuse of a human.  There were reports of physical attacks in the Rose Bowl parking lot, cars getting keyed and other mayhem. For the first time in all my years of attending the game I was in fear for the safety of my family. In all fairness, most of the crowd was just very happy and indeed respectful, but the extreme elements were so numerous and odious that my wife has vowed to never attend the game again.

Trojans and Bruins are proud of their academic and athletic achievements. The competition between the schools has traditionally been accompanied by good natured banter as our teams "leave it all" out on the field. After the competition passions would yield to reason and we would all continue to be good friends and neighbors.

Embellishing the Bush/Mayo allegations or criticizing the Toledo era is good-natured ribbing. Bruins 102 NCAA on Jun 2, 2009 11:07 PM

School pride has morphed into unabashed vitriol and we are left to wonder why. Could it be possible that the noxious environment in the blogosphere is contributing to the extreme fanaticism? Is the continuous drumbeat of hateful accusations causing endless discord? Why do some fans feel justified in taking matters into their own hands? Do the East Coast political oppo bloggers care about the long distance damage they are inflicting on our esteemed rivalry?

This rage seems to be having an effect on the institutions themselves. At the same time Pete Carroll and Rick Neuheisel are trying to re-establish the tradition of wearing home uniforms for the football game, UCLA refused to allow the USC Basketball Band and Song Girls to attend events at Pauley and decided they will not send the UCLA band and cheerleaders to USC. There has not been a satisfactory explanation for this action.

The haters and lunatics shouldn’t be running the asylum. It’s time for the grown-ups to set a good example. Enough with the political operatives. There are fair minded Trojans and Bruins all over town and all over the internet, they value competition and objectivity. A recent CC thread proved we are capable of a higher level of discourse.

Read the thread here.

There are two sides to every story. SuperBruinMan on Jun 1, 2008 9:29 PM

USC and UCLA should resume all the trappings and traditions of the rivalry. Bring back the home unis, bring back the Song Girls and Bruin Cheerleaders, and let’s bring back the bands!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Conquest Chronicles' writers or editors.

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Comments

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Hey

I have a feeling this is going to go down and it’s going to be great. I don’t think there is a Trojan or a Bruin that doesn’t want this to happen.

by Bruins102NCAA on Jun 5, 2008 1:29 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome Post

Like many of us from LA, I grew up with the rivalry EVERYWHERE. My math teacher was an ‘SC grad and my English teacher was a UCLA grad. It made for awesome rivalry weeks. I ended up choosing UCLA because I like the Westside better than South Central, and of course, I feel UCLA is better (sorry, had to do it). Heckling and a bit of bad-mouthing is to be expected, but it really makes me uncomfortable to be around USC or UCLA ultra-fans. 90% of both school’s fans are entirely civilized, prone to making a few sharp jabs at the appropriate times, but keep it sane and fun. The other 10% are just immature about the rivalry.
The whole band thing is still a mystery to me, although the whole rumors of band behavior has been raised before. As a HUGE marching band fan, I’d love to hear both bands (although I think most of us, including quite a few ‘SC fans, would love to hear a little more variety in the Trojan March Band’s repertoire). If there are legitimate concerns about space, behavior, etc I’m sure the two schools should be able to go come together to work it out.

I’ll never stop being a partisan UCLA fan, just like 99% of CC readers will never stop being rabid USC fans. I really enjoy both points of view from BN and CC… This all wouldn’t be worth it if we agreed all the time, so thanks for what you all do.

by impaulv on Jun 5, 2008 5:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

TGMBITHOTU

Putting on my own partisan helmet… in terms of the TMB, that whole rumored excuse is just a smokescreen, unless “band behavior” means being too good at firing up its team and p*ssing off the other side. I also doubt that Art Bartner cares what other people, especially from across town, think of the song selection. I love our band (full disclosure, I am also a former member) and the fact that their relentless hammering of Tribute to Troy at football games drives the other side crazy only makes a lot of Trojans love them even more. Their spirit and enthusiasm epitomize the best in college pride and team support.

by Defender90 on Jun 5, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tribute to Troy

Is that the dirge sounding thing you constantly play? I know why you play it and you probably laugh when I tell you, but I hate it. I suppose that is the purpose of it.

by Bruins102NCAA on Jun 6, 2008 3:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Psychological warfare

I don’t even hear it anymore, but I know it’s being played because I can see opposing fans bleeding out of their eyes.

If USC were a country, the UN would be on our case about playing that little tune. Unfortunately for the rest of the Pac 10, however.

by DC Trojan on Jun 6, 2008 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, yes, and yes

Bartner always used to lean in from his ladder, veins sticking out in his neck, and exhort us, “you’re proud, aaaaaaaaarrogant!”

by Defender90 on Jun 6, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The USC-UCLA rivalry is one of the best there is in college (sports). Unlike any other rivalry in the country, both schools are located in the same city, so that just fans the flames even more. As has been posted many times, most anyone living in SoCal knows/works/lives with people who went to either or both schools. It’s really part of the fabric of life here.

The good-natured taunting is always gonna be there – and should be. Things ratchet up a bit during rivalry week, but that, too, is to be expected (minus extreme behavior like scaring kids or poking someone’s eye out). I also give more leeway to impassioned online posts from anyone who is currently attending either school (or recently graduated), because those students are truly living the rivalry now.

On the other hand, If you’re more than a couple of years removed from campus life, yet seem obsessed with trashing your rival 24/7, that says more about you and your own personal issues than it does either school.

by Defender90 on Jun 5, 2008 11:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The TMB may have been bad in the past

The reputation of the band was pretty bad in the early 90’s but has softened up since then. Its bad behavior is a shadow of its former self. ucla banning the USC band is a smokescreen to sell more tickets. USC banning the ucla band is solely in response to ucla’s move. So basically if bruins want to bring the bands back, they are going to have to yell at their administration to open the doors back up to the TMB. I doubt that USC will allow their kids at our events if the bruins don’t reciprocate.

by frak on Jun 5, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely

UCLA hasn’t given an explanation because they don’t want to admit that they sacrificed tradition in exchange for some extra cash.

UCLA did allow the SC band to perform at Pauley for the women’s hoops game, where there were plenty of seats available.

by insomniacslounge on Jun 5, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aeneas. . .

. . .if it weren’t for you (historically), the world would never have had Romulus and Remus- and the foundations of the Holy Roman Empire. You are a MASSIVE citizen/icon for Troy!

That said. . . . . .DAMN SON! I want me some ‘SC football! And I want it RIGHT FRICKIN’ NOW! Way to go brotha! Epic post!

So, if our bands can’t get together on game days- let’s rent out some Elks Lodge and have ourselves a “grass”-roots Battle of the Bands, a’la Cheech and Chong’s “Up In Smoke” (grass imbibing is entirely optional). I figure, since neither of the bands have Dead Kennedy’s or Black Flag or Metallica songs in the repertoire (or do they?), there will be no need for a Pit! (can you imagine? f_cking bang out of order, i tell you!)

It sure would be nice to get these bands on the field, court, and/or pitch! Our respective teams are CHAMPIONS squared! The players, fans, and alumni DESERVE THEM!

by BixBeiderbecke on Jun 5, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If we bring back the bands...

do the spirit squads follow? Members from both teams have received a LOT of abuse from rival fans in recent years.

(btw, Bix- I just saw your reply to me in a previous thread and left a msg there. You’re welcome to comment on my site anytime you’d like.)

by insomniacslounge on Jun 5, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sad decline ...

I’ve never actually been to any of the crosstown rivalry games at either venues … mainly because I didn’t attend either school. But I have been at games at both the Collosseum and Rose Bowl to watch Cal play. Sad to say, in the past few years my experience at the Rose Bowl has grown worse. This quote from your post really resonated:

The verbal abuse was incessant and indiscriminate; equally directed at men, women, and children with complete abandon.

Last year was just brutal, as my wife, friends and I were harrassed mercilessly by bruin “fans” and I even saw children dressed in Cal gear get yelled at. At one point a drunken bruin tossed their leftover nachos at a group of Old Blues while laughing. Last year was absolutely the worst I’ve experienced.

And if it was that bad for me, I can’t even imagine what it must be like for SC alumni and fans when they travel there.

I honestly have no idea if (or how much) of this is because of some over-zealous, hyperbolic, hateful, and incendiary blogging or just another aspect of society. Still, it’s gotta stop. Here’s hoping your plea takes hold.

Go Bears!

by SoCal Oski on Jun 5, 2008 4:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Something I will never understand

Is the deep-seated bitterness and bile that seems to come from the Cal people. Is this just an extension of the perceived Nor Cal/So Cal battle over preeminence in the state? One will never know. Personally, I have never been able to figure out why Cal cannot be proud of its sister university of which it is the founder. Trojans may be interested to know that the Bruin mascot was suggested by the Cal student body and that the Sons of Westwood© (copyright sign to amuse my Cal friend) was originally the Cal song “Big C.” A Cal alum rearranged it when he was director of our band. We then went out and won a lot of athletic contests with it so the average person in the U.S. would probably recognize it as Sons of Westwood. This causes much consternation to the Cal fan, who loves to tell you how UCLA “ripped-off” everything from them even though Cal was instrumental in every facet in the foundation of UCLA.

I would love to debate the finer points of this, but this is not the place and I am very aware that this is a Trojan’s blog.

Many of you are right: Our rivalry is the finest, most contested, acrimonious, and closely-held of any rivalry in the country. Our campuses are only 10 miles apart. The chances of interacting with a Trojan on a daily basis are extremely high. Coupled with success of our respective athletic teams, we have the makings for probably the best rivalry in all of college sports. I personally take pride in this as I’m sure those on the other side do as well.

And it is from time to time mean-spirited. However, when face to face with a Trojan, who could be a member of your family or close friend, it’s all in good fun. We basically talk serious smack about each other. I have lurked here for about a year now and I have read some things that have pissed me off and other things that I was surprised at the amount of respect given to my alma mater. I realize that this is a place for SC fans to vent and I don’t take it personal.

I usually get on BN to vent myself and I will explain why. At certain times of the year (Dec for instance) I will be out on the town dressed in my UCLA gear. Often times someone will say to me “UCLA SUCKS!” for no apparent reason. I don’t think that I have ever been accosted in such a way by someone who actually went to USC but only by bandwagon fans. I ponder where they were in the 80’s and 90’s when the team wasn’t doing so well, when people like my dad watched and cheered for them anyway.

As far as being messed with at the Rose Bowl is concerned, I think that we all can tell stories about the fans at the other stadium. You will hear Bruins moan about the SC fans at the Coliseum, gang-bangers haranguing women for instance. I’m sure the SC folks have stories about the Rose Bowl.

I think it’s a matter of perspective. I think we all need to consider that some of our people might just be assholes pretty much in the same proportion as in general society.

Anyhow, I’ll find out more about the band thing. From what I have heard, a reason was given but it sounds like tit for tat type stuff. Let’s work on it.

by Bruins102NCAA on Jun 6, 2008 3:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strangest face off with a Bruin

The only time I ever got any hassle from a Bruin, oddly enough, was after a game in the Coliseum that ucla won. This guy was completely in my face and seemed to get even angrier when I asked if he was aware that his team had won the game.

Mind you, we could see the fights in the ucla section from our student section, so maybe everyone had got a little giddy from being able to get beer in the stadium. That would certain explain why this gentleman was so befuddled.

by DC Trojan on Jun 6, 2008 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

102 – you are right., this is not the place for a discussion of Cal v Ucla. My point was simply that I’ve noticed in the past couple of visits to the Rose Bowl that things have been much much worse than in years prior. When I was there in the 90’s there was still the usually trash talk, but it’s just gotten worse.

I won’t try and defend negative behavior on the part of Cal fans towards opponents because it’s just wrong. And yes, Cal fans, Oregon fans, SC fans and others can be as nasty and violent as anyone else. I think we can both agree that there is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. From my experience that line’s been crossed a lot the last few trips to either the RB or Pauley, and it is a noticeable change from before. It’s not a matter of bitterness … just stating my experience.

Go Bears!

by SoCal Oski on Jun 6, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its hit and miss

I’m sure you can find that just about anyplace in the pac-10. There’s going to be trolls in every arena. My worst experience by far was at CAL in 2003 when a horde of Cal students followed my 60 year old parents back to their car shouting the f-word at them after winning the game.

by frak on Jun 6, 2008 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I (UCLA student) and my girlfriend at the time (Cal student) have gotten some shitty behavior at both the Rose Bowl and Memorial Stadium. I don’t have anything against Cal at all, was accepted there (and SC), chose UCLA, and am happy with the decision. While I am generally anti-USC all the time, and fiercely so around game time, I don’t have anywhere close to that level of feeling towards Cal. Like I said before, it’s definately a few bad apples EVERYWHERE who give the decent shit-talking fans (does that even make sense?) a bad name.

by impaulv on Jun 6, 2008 6:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Oski, I think we can both say . . .

. . .WITH AUTHORITY. . that going down to The Farm on Big Game day takes the PAC 10 cake, as far as being just this side of terrifying! Those students and alumni are HATEFUL towards pretty much anyone, and especially Cal Bears on that day. Their band (of thugs) don’t suffer no fools either!

Frak, DC, Def90- remember that thread we had going here on CC after the Oregon game at Autzen? Some things were on here with that one.

The Farm? Autzen? No thanks, I choose civility. And beer (where/when available)

by BixBeiderbecke on Jun 6, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cal - Furd vs SC - Ucla

Rivalries are what they are. Big Game day can be kind of intense, no doubt about it, and way too often the emotion spills over. Never having been to a SC – Ucla game I can’t compare the two, but I do remember the emotions running high for the Big Game.

Sorry to hear about your grandparents, frak … that is just not right.

And again, my original comment was not meant as an anti-Ucla bomb so much as just an observation that a trip to the Rose Bowl has really become distasteful in recent years. I didn’t mean to imply that all Ucla students / fans were thugs. Like impaluv said, there are assholes everywhere. I guess the ones wearing Ucla colors feel it’s time to make a statement.

Go Bears!

by SoCal Oski on Jun 6, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was students

They are a spirited bunch at Cal. The alums always behave well. I’m sure there are people out there with similar stories that people have about SC fans. I’ve been to all the stadiums in the Pac-10, and I have to say my worst experiences were at Cal with Oregon as runner up. Best experiences were by far at Oregon State. For the most part, I think the close quarters in Los Angeles, keeps the ucla-USC rivalry pretty cordial. Most fans have friends or family on the other side of town.

I agree with the assholes are everywhere comment. God knows USC fans aren’t angels all the time.

by frak on Jun 6, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean the anti-band?

They’re soooooooooooooooooo cool, they don’t worry about marching or formations or any of that bourgeois stuff.

by Defender90 on Jun 6, 2008 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to the club...

Welcome to the club Oski!
Thanks for the historical feedback Bix. Indeed, Aeneas was the last great Trojan hero. The legendary Trojans conquered the Latins, and their descendants the Romans conquered the treacherous Greeks, absorbing them into their Empire. The score was settled.
For the record, I don’t consider myself worthy of the name.

Of note: There are two Bruins playing for the Lakers in the NBA championship series. Congratulations to Farmar and Ariza; but no one should forget these guys work for a Trojan.

by aeneas on Jun 5, 2008 6:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I too come from a house divided. Me and my dad sit together and watch the lakers (beat Boston) and the dodgers play. But when Usc and Ucla play we are no longer father and son. we’ll talk so much smack to each other that you’ll think we would start exchanging blows.

I would love to see this rivarly get back to where it used to be.

by Jeodude on Jun 5, 2008 6:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude

That is exactly the way it is with my pops and I.

by Bruins102NCAA on Jun 6, 2008 3:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm makes me wish I still worked for the university

I could ask some of my contacts over in the Band Office what the deal is with this if I did.

The days of “Old Band” are thankfully pretty much gone. I think our band can be plenty effective without being complete dicks to each other and everyone around them.

Also as a former band member I love the effect that TTT has on opposing fans and teams. How many other schools have that kind of effect on their opponents, 3 or 4 tops. I remember my freshman year (2001) when the Stanford QB at the time said he hoped to shut us up and have us not playing that song by half time. You bet your ass we played it twice as much and twice as loud that weekend.

The poster formerly known as Matt.

by bluemax on Jun 6, 2008 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

bluemax-

That’s tight “salutation” at the end of your post. If I may. . . .I’m: The poster formerly known as tapoutstylist. (I’m in the process of obtaining “tapout”, with the stellar assistance of Trei at SB Nation).

Hey! A lighthearted (and not-so-serious) wager on “who obtains just a symbol”, a’la Prince metamorphoses? Has he stopped morphing already?

by BixBeiderbecke on Jun 6, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Old Band

Yeah I was in the “old band” and was witness to a lot of the bad behavior. I’m not going to confirm or deny any participation in said behavior though. I’ll take the 5th. One thing is for sure. The USC and ucla bands hated each other when I was at USC. There were obscenities flying, cars vandalized, arenas vandalized, uniforms and instruments hijacked, you name it.

by frak on Jun 6, 2008 11:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"Beer for the band, beer for the band"

Maybe Link can tell us if that chant is still heard marching over to the Coliseum on game day. When we passed tailgating Trojans, we’d start up that chant and usually a few beers would be passed down the line with each of us taking a swig.

by Defender90 on Jun 7, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can answer this

The answer is no. Bartner has clamped down on the beer. Most band members wont even take a beer if you try to give them one now. Its a damn shame really.

by frak on Jun 8, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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