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Mayo Fallout

ESPN's Pat Forde Weighs in on Mayo

This is rich…if not premature.

In a just world, USC basketball would have something in common with SMU football in the near future.


The death penalty.

When I first read that this morning I said, Wow! That didn’t take long, think he had this one in the can ready to go?

For the most part I have always respected Forde’s work but he is a bit premature here. ESPN does the investigation, so of course Forde, an ESPN writer, automatically believes it’s all true right? Based on just allegations right? Can we have some proof? I saw the receipts too, but can you prove the flat screen TV was in Mayo’s room? Can you prove that Mayo actually stayed in the hotel room in question? Are we automatically going to believe the word of ANOTHER drug dealer who appears to have an axe to grind?

The pendulum has swung the other way. Gone are the days of  “the greatest team ever” to now saying that SC deserves the death penalty over things that have yet to be proven only alleged.

I am going to be honest here; I am to the point that I couldn’t care less. Players taking money?! Say it aint so!! The whole process is dirty, from coaches circumventing recently established rules to hangers on being allowed almost limitless access.

For every player accused or caught taking money there is another one who gets away with it. It is what it is, I’m certainly not saying its right but I’m not going to be surprised by it either regardless of the program that is affected by it. The NCAA is powerless to address it even retroactively, as greedy players and their hangers on will find a way around the rules or go to another school and jeopardize those programs.

Of course the NCAA will open up another investigation on Mayo based on this new information but in the end the joke’s on them because even after they investigated Mayo before its not like Guillory was some unknown, he has caused problems before. In my eyes SC is more culpable here because they knew about Guillory in the past; that should have been enough to raise some red flags. Clearly the NCAA/USC didn’t look in the right places in the past so now we are supposed to believe they will get it right this time?

There was a comment on All Things Trojan that really says it all:

On the one hand, the NCAA doesn't trust athletes so it relies on schools to monitor their actions. On the other hand, when an athlete goes bad, the NCAA trusts the athlete won't make the same mistake, but punishes the school for not monitoring the athlete's actions.

Go figure.

That really is the truth.

The system is so screwed up that it is clear the inmates are running the asylum. Frankly, I’m disgusted. Especially with the whole Bush mess hanging like a black cloud out there. You would think that SC would be more skeptical with all the things associated with Mayo and his recruitment of USC. I had my doubts about Mayo early on and how he came to SC but he won me over with his respectful demeanor and play on the court. I noted a month or so ago that having Mayo at SC was worth it, but if this is true I am totally bewildered. Mike Garrett is going to have to answer a lot of tough questions here as will Tim Floyd

USC is going to have a hard time convincing anyone that they monitored this situation closely at all. There were just too many signs there and they were all missed...

Fool me once shame on you…fool me twice shame on me.

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Oy

I think Forde is overstating the culpability for SC in the Bush case, but if all this business with Mayo is true, then you would think that heads would have to roll.

In other words, it’s one thing to fail to connect the dots when a running back with no obvious prior connections to someone with agent aspirations is on the take but doing it away from the flagpole. There’s an element of plausible deniability inasmuch as – while it’s very easy to say after the fact that X and Y dots should have been connected – it might not have been obvious at the time.

But there were dots to be connected from the get-go with Mayo, inasmuch as he had a relationship with someone who had caused previous issues with USC basketball. Either he was beyond clean while he was at SC, or the Compliance Department is so busy filling out paperwork that they left Mr Magoo on the case for keeping an eye on the athletes.

Forde has a legitimate reason to be upset about how this is indicative of a broader corruption in college basketball – a corruption that’s all too likely when a professional league uses college as a developmental league, leading to nominally amateur athletes getting bought off via indirect means.

That said, call off the hanging posse, Mr Forde, and at least have the courtesy to let the university finish shredding paperwork and get their story straight present the facts as they have them, and the NCAA do nothing undertake an investigation, before making USC the new SMU.

by DC Trojan on May 11, 2008 11:34 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Death Penalty is a bit much

Mr Forde’s claim that USC escaped the Bush case is just not correct. USC has been waiting for the hammer to fall ever since the allegations surfaced. It just so happens that the investigation is stalled due to both sides refusing to be deposed. I don’t think that either case is comparable. If USC is guilty of anything with Mayo, it might just be poor judgment. Taking a player like him requires a great amount of trust that he will follow all the rules, while finishing his school work in order for USC to stay in the NCAA’s good graces. So far Mayo has followed through with all his promises.

If the allegations that Mr. Johnson made are true, then USC will probably never take another 1 and done athlete again.  There seems to be a growing number of kids that come to college with little respect for the rules of amateurism.  I would have rather finished 8th place in the Pac 10 than be sanctioned for misconduct by the NCAA.  I just hope that if the allegations are true, that USC is cleared of any wrong doing.

by frak on May 12, 2008 5:40 AM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Would someone take this. . . .

. . . . “Goliath” sign off our backs? Puh-leaze?

Okay, so let’s get this straight. An ex-journalist – turned – wannabe – sports marketing agent – slash – Judas FINALLY comes forward with exhaustive proof – of – bling toys and bling leisure out of concern that his friend- who’s- no- longer- his- friend consciously engages in destructive relationships, especially with people who used to be (gee, this is weird) his “other” ex-former friend? What’s more, Guillory and “the other ex-former friend” engaged in nurturing this relationship with “the friend” (OJ) under rather dubious circumstances and with ulterior motives? (will the weirdness ever stop?)

HUH?

I mean, couldn’t Guillory just tell OJ, “Dude, it’s prolly a good idea not to hang out with people like me.” Wouldn’t that be easier than to whore yourself off to any available media outlet (with proof mind you. Kinko’s can get pricey, no?) and traveling here and there to state your sincere concerns? For crying out loud. What happened to the old days of “Interventions”? A couple of refreshing beverages at a quiet outta the way place to have “a chat” maybe?

If this clown has an iota of concern, it’s for his “15-minutes of fame”. He’s got about 2 more minutes and I’m already getting itchy fingers on the remote. Next?

What does Guillory and . . . what’s that other clown’s name from Bushgate again? . .oh yeah- Lloyd Lake- see? that homeboy’s 15-minutes were up a year ago already. . anyhow. . what does Guillory and Lake have in common? Jilted man-lovers. Yup. They love good-looking, athletically-gifted, and soon to be wealthy young men from USC.

What’s Forde’s problem? He’s from the same school of journalism that that Kim Bissnger dude (from HBO/Costas show fame). Baz Kissinger? Buzz Bassinger? Whatever. . Forde and Bissinger- that’s who I’m talking about. The MSM farts are losing touch. Losing their base. Losing their once respected relevance. Got topics? Both Forde and Bissinger have gone a little over the top, borderline sensationalistic antics to get their points across.

Okay so they’ve got opinions. Got to give it to them. But we don’t have to buy what they’re trying to sell. And it’s problematic only up to the point of costing them their hard earned respect as columnists.

Me oh my, the Lilliputians are taking it to Goliath. (most of what I’ve written, is quite possibly in jest. not a big fan of parenthetical smirks)

Fight On!

by BixBeiderbecke on May 12, 2008 8:06 AM PDT reply reply   0 recs

the more I think about it...

...the secondary irritation is this: if it’s true, it happened because of basketball? I don’t know about you all, but if there’s going to be shenanigans on this scale, I’d rather have it be for a team that’s actually doing well. Better hung for a sheep than a lamb, as they used to say.

by DC Trojan on May 12, 2008 11:12 AM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Interesting take from Maize and Brew.

Maize and Brew’s Dave had an interesting take on this, having watched the Chris Webber debacle back in the day.

by DC Trojan on May 12, 2008 2:01 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Remember

that the people clamoring for the death penalty are also including the Reggie Bush situation in it. They aren’t asking for the death penalty based on just the OJ Mayo allegations. The issue is basketball and football are two different programs so you can’t give basketball the death penalty because football also screwed up.

IMO, USC does need to be punished and the punishment Maize and Brew proposed sounds good. Ban the program from the postseason for a year or two, take away a scholarship and put them on probation. The NCAA can do that and I’ll consider it fair, but what I think the university has to look at is Mike Garrett’s tenure as AD. This is now the two major programs that have had issues and the basketball program suffered from poor academics. After the Reggie Bush situation, what was Guillory doing around the program? He’s known to have agent connections and has gotten a USC player suspended before. Mike Garrett either has to go or be on a very, very hot seat from here on out.

by ryebreadraz on May 12, 2008 2:49 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Lemme see if I understand you

Are you implying that Dan Guerrero is being thoroughly briefed and is totally updated on each and every student-athlete at UCLA? Don’t get me wrong, I know we’re talking about two very high-profile players as it applies to Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo (and if you must, add whomever else from USC that you feel obliged to include. you’re gonna do it anyway, even though we here at Conquest Chronicles respect you and the civility you consistently bring to the table of our discussions), but forgive me if this sounds facetious- last I checked, this is America. And it’s academic to have to say that people are free to associate with whomever they please, so long as it doesn’t run afoul of established rules on eligibility. Judging people based on presumption and generalization with regards to their vocation, or interests, or inter-relational proclivities is against the law. Let’s not split hairs here, yeah there are established and enforced requirements for all student-athletes to abide by as it applies to “amateurism” and eligibility. But I would be surprised to be presented with hard-data regarding NCAA mandates based on the “profiling” of a student-athlete’s associates, friendships, or the natural progression of development of the two and how these concerns are determined and enforced system-wide on any and all universities here in the US.

Let’s be clear on this. I’m formally asking you to provide any information that Mike Garrett:

A. Is required to be intimately involved in student-athlete relationships and or developments thereof.
B. Is expected to (be it written or unwritten) intercede in the private lives of students (any student) on the USC campus
C. Has an obvious organizational or systemic problem involving violating NCAA charters regarding sports at USC
D. Is in any way aloof or in complete dereliction of duty as USC Athletic Director (is it your opinion that Garrett is incompetent?

One last request, in your perceptions on this matter, how is it determined that Garrett, or Floyd, or the Compliance Office should have been able to intercede on OJ’s behalf out of concerns of him running afoul of NCAA mandates?

It’s trite to invoke the “glass half full/half empty” BS. A little while ago, the young men involved with the Duke lacrosse team suffered a brutal onslaught of vicious judgement that was later to be determined as unfounded. The Bush and Mayo case is in no way to that level. But similarities of rash judgement and sanctimonious opinion are uncanny and can’t be dismissed. Presuming guilt over possible violations regarding eligibility is not as serious as presuming guilt regarding gang-rape, but c’mon- do you seriously have the expectation that campus university AD’s, compliance offices, coaches, and or professors have that much of a keen insight as to the daily social circles of high-visibility players or anonymous poli sci majors?

What am I missing here ryebreadraz? What facts do you base such harsh meting out of punishment regarding USC institutional failure. I am completely and thoroughly in disagreement with you on this matter. (and that, my friend, is quite unusual. i normally find your opinions palatable. their’s a first for everything i guess?)

by BixBeiderbecke on May 12, 2008 4:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It's about risk
One last request, in your perceptions on this matter, how is it determined that Garrett, or Floyd, or the Compliance Office should have been able to intercede on OJ’s behalf out of concerns of him running afoul of NCAA mandates?

I’ve been busy for the last couple weeks, so I haven’t been able to foolow this particularly closely. From what I have seen, though, it looks like Mayo’s amateur status was in danger long before he arrived at USC. When he was in high school there were a ton of red flags: his relationship with Dwaine Barnes (note the date of the post), living alone in Ohio, his relationship with Rodney Guillory, the way Mayo first contacted USC, and most importantly Guillory’s past indiscretions (Jeff Trepagnier). Interestingly enough, Mayo passed the NCAA’s amateur status check, and this may end up helping USC.

So who’s to blame? I really can’t say, but with all the red flags, someone should answer for it. Perhaps Tim Floyd took too big of a risk considering the low potential for reward; perhaps someone in the compliance department didn’t do enough to act on what was known; perhaps Mike Garrett has done a poor job overseeing the basketball program’s operations. It depends on what all is eventually revealed.

by SuperBruinMan on May 13, 2008 6:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Thank you

In situations such as this- rational and reasoned thoughts such as yours are often lost among the emotional outbursts of what I like to call- the “gotcha-goobers”.

If we’re able to discuss the Mayo affair sans the “shoulda (known), coulda (prevented)” perspective- we’d be able to potentially develop sensible opinions that would reflect a more accurate eventual outcome of this whole affair.

Yes, Mayo may very well be leading a whole lot of us on. USC could possibly have been better armed in having the power to eliminate people like Guillory or Lake from having contact with Bush/Mayo. Investigative data should have determined . . . . .? And on and on . . .

Intelligently gathering the necessary information to determine fault or place blame is the ideal path which, unfortunately- is the more difficult and unchosen way to go for most people.

I applaud your response to my comments SuperBruinMan, open-dialogs on highly-charged topics is a rarity in the USC – UCLA dynamic. After these past three days, I can finally say- with utmost sincerity- a Bruin made my day. Thanks again.

by BixBeiderbecke on May 13, 2008 8:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

We’ll see how this all plays out, but I am tired of the incredible hypocrisy and holier than thou attitude copped by many sportswriters and especially by UCLA students, alumni, and fans. Nothing has been officially charged against Bush (who admittedly likely did accept loan money while an amateur) or Mayo (wouldn’t be surprised if at least some of the accusations turn up true). Until USC has been officially been charged with anything, I’m going to give our coach’s, their staff, and the AD the benefit of the doubt.

But let’s face it, every university has to deal with ethical issues. Maybe UCLA doesn’t have to deal with their players taking fairly paltry amounts of money ($7500/year, it costs about $40,000/yr just to go to SC after food and living expenses ), but they do have to deal with directors in their medical department being convicted of selling cadavers for profit and secretaries selling confidential medical records to the national media all within the last two years. Let those who haven’t sinned cast the first stone, and as far as I’m concerned there is no institution in the country with an impeccable slate.

Where’s the culpability of the national media? They have no problem building up hype and sensationalism around athletes like Mayo and then condemning them for their mishaps once they’re spotlight. Certainly the media isn’t responsible for the individuals they cover, it is a business after all. But taking a moralistic and righteous attitude is absolutely disgusting. Let’s face it, Louis Johnson and the folks at ESPN are just looking to get paid and further their own careers. Moreover, what’s the deal with the selective treatment? Where the hell did guys like Michael Beasley get the money for four phones?

The whole situation is embarrassing for USC, and maybe there are issues in the compliance department. . If USC broke a rule then USC broke a rule and they will face the consequences, but please spare us all your poorly thought out judgments.

by Laughing Stock on May 12, 2008 6:56 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

To be fair

If the allegations against Mayo are true, I wouldn’t argue against sanctioning USC. When the Bush scandal hit, we might have been able to play the “we didn’t know card.” But with Mayo, it really wouldn’t matter if we knew or not. Its just too much for there not to be any punishment.

As far as the bruins are concerned, they can’t really fault us without taking a good long look at John Wooden. All the sports talk guys were bringing up John Wooden and Sam Gilbert today on the radio here in L.A.

by frak on May 12, 2008 11:35 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

smoke and fire?

Okay, I’ll admit to not really following this situation closely mainly because I am kind of tired of athlete scandals (and you boys seem to be having a few of them lately).

However, one thing in this post caught my eye:

USC is going to have a hard time convincing anyone that they monitored this situation closely at all. There were just too many signs there and they were all missed…

After all the hubbub with Bush, and after all the baggage surrounding his signing, and especially after the whole ticket thing, you would think that both Floyd and Garrett would have been watching OJ2 with an eagle’s eye, putting everything he did and everyone he met under a microscope. At the very least this shows a very lazy attitude from both the hoops program and Heritage Hall. I mean, come on—Mayo came in wearing a giant neon red blinking sign saying “potential trouble” and it should have been a no-brainer to just keep a bit of extra attention on him.

The whole “death penalty” talk - oh, I don’t know. If it’s shown that there was any sort of active cover-up, or even tacit acknowledgment of Bush, Mayo and whatever else the NCAA is investigating, then maybe it’s warranted.

See you chumps later, I’m going to Hawai’i for a week.

Go Bears.

Go Bears!

by SoCal Oski on May 13, 2008 9:01 AM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Argh

I was skimming your comment and when I got to the section about the “giant red neon blinking sign,” I read “giant red neon bikini.” I found this mental image very disturbing and I think you should give me your tickets to Hawai’i as a gesture of good will to facilitate the mental cleansing that will be required.

by DC Trojan on May 13, 2008 9:28 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Giant red neon bikini?

If it was on “Passion-Bucket Bruin Boy” getting his yeti-groove on from your hilarious posting a few days ago? That would be very disturbing. (against someone’s state law somewhere, has to be).

However, on a nubile co-ed with “USC” or “BAMA” logos strategically placed ANYWHERE on said coed’s bikini? . . . . . . . .now that would be pretty much, just this side of sublime.

by BixBeiderbecke on May 13, 2008 10:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

"F"-this, "f"-that too!

Myles Brand “should” have known that the NCAA has toothless bylaws and rather “intriguing” expectations that it’s member schools can be capable of successfully restricting individuals from lavishing toys, gifts, accommodations, phones, cars, tickets, gas money, VIP club access, and ESPECIALLY televisions to student-athletes. Therefore, the NCAA should be banned for at least 6 months from the American-consciousness and lose revenue/profits from 2 year’s worth of championship football and basketball tournaments!

Seriously.

If morons can formulate ridiculous opinions of judgment and punishment on USC, the same line of reasoning and assumptions can be made regarding the organizational dysfunction of the body that effectively governs it.

No? Too bad. I just did.

by BixBeiderbecke on May 13, 2008 2:18 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Let us not rush to judgment here. USC is not entirely to blame for news.

by justin3007 on May 13, 2008 4:55 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs



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