It is a bit of a cop out to say his teams went deep regularly. It is true that UCLA fans expect more than simply making the tournament, but the problem with Lavin was much greater. In 7 years, many of his teams were incredibly talented, possibly more than any other team in the country, and certainly more talented than any team Howland has had. (cue Baron Davis highlight reel) Those teams often played very poorly and inconsistently in the regular season then pulled an upset to miraculously reach the Steve Sixteen (or lose to Detroit). In his 6 years as full Head Coach, he was 0-4 in the Regional Semi, including a loss to a 12 seed after knocking off the 1 seed. By the end of his time at UCLA the program was in the gutter. If he had stayed any longer, UCLA probably wouldn’t have had the recruiting class that saved the program (Farmar, Afflalo, Shipp, Mata) and it may have taken an extra 3 or 4 years to get back near the top.

I agree with most of what you said about Floyd, but Lavin is in a class of his own.

1. What about what he did at UNO? They have been nothing basketball wise without him.

2. Floyd walked into an absolutely horrible situation with the bulls. Michael Jordan had just made hi retirement final and Scottie Pippen was traded away. The starting lineup for his team the first year was Randy Brown, Ron Harper, Brent Barry, Toni Kukoc, and Bill Wennington. Truly a team for the ages. Also, you list a bunch of good players, but that group you pointed out was never all on the team at the same time. Brand and Artest played their Rookie and Sophomore seasons together before Brand was traded away to get the draft rights for Tyson Chandler. Curry was drafted that same year and when those two played under Floyd they were rookies fresh out of high school. Artest was traded away shortly after Floyd was fired as well. Although it is still Floyd’s job to field a good team regardless of the circumstances, the management of the Bulls during that period was an absolute joke.

3. I disagree. SC is a ways away from an NCAA title, but they have a realistic shot at a conference championship this year. Even MSM writers like Luke Winn think the Pac 10 is up for grabs this year:

UCLA is probably the league’s best all-around squad, but that’s not saying much; the Bruins already flopped against Michigan and lost at Texas. Unless swingman Josh Shipp becomes a go-to guy to complement point guard Darren Collison, and a few of the Bruins’ freshmen step up, the gap between Ben Howland’s boys and ’Zona, ASU and USC is minuscule.

4. SC hasn’t advanced on bit? At what point in the history of USC hoops other than now would the team have a good shot at making the tourney and finishing at the top of the Pac 10 when losing their top scorers two years in a row? Also, Floyd has a better record in his first three years than any other coach in SC history. And the Pac 10 coaches picked SC to finish third, not sixth, in the preseason media day poll. In fact, USC’s preseason coaches and AP poll rankings reflect this as well.

5. OK, I am not sure exactly how Hackett regressed from his freshman and sophomore campaign considering that in pretty much every statistical category he either improved or stayed the same. The only thing that has gotten worse for Hackett this year are his turnovers, but this is the most prominent role he has played on the team in his career. I don’t know what to say about Derozan, the kid is a great athlete but everyone knew he was extremely raw. I think he’ll get better, but frankly we’re only 9 games into the season, so its a bit early to be making judgments about him. I guess I really don’t think transfers are that big of a deal, but whatever.

6. Since you didn’t put a 6 in your original post, I guess I’ll just say that I don’t completely understand why you are so hung up on age. Does it really matter if Gibson/Mayo/Washington are older than many of the other college players? I guess USC needs to set arbitrary age barriers if they want to become a truly respected hoops program.

7. Mayo probably took some money, but I think it was filtered through family and friends, and I am not so sure he was aware of the whole situation around him. Regardless of what I’ve heard though, the fact of the matter is that the disputed amount of money turns out to be something along the line of $2,000-$3,000 per year, which is a complete joke to get all worked up about. If you really want to know about Mayo’s character, type “OJ Mayo work ethic” into google and see what you get. This quote sums it up pretty well:

Jonathan Givony: Some teams have questioned your upside since you’ve always been a year older than your class, how do you respond to this? Is that something you get offended by when people say maybe he’s reached his peak; that’s something you’ve heard since you’ve been in high school. How do you respond to that?

O.J. Mayo: I’m going to work hard regardless of what anyone says. You can say whatever you want to say, but you’re not going to take that away from me, you’re not going to say that I don’t work hard or that I’m lazy, that’s one thing you’re not going to say.

8.Sure it may be a bit shady to offer Miller a one year schollie to get Derozan, but frankly if the tradeoff is a McDonald’s All American and a higher profile in recruiting than I’ll take it. Yeah, Washington’s shot was embarassing, but the fact of the matter is that something happened on the other side of the court, and it seems like Washington isn’t the only player to have problems with Griffin. Also, what exactly do you mean by the sordid Davon Jefferson saga? He said he was coming back, he didn’t, and instead left to go into the draft. Apparently he did not get along all that well with the other players and it was time to move on. However, he did finish up his schoolwork before leaving.

9. So you want USC to contend for conference titles and national championships, but you want us to recruit and build our teams like Butler, Gonzaga, Xavier, and St. Mary’s? SC is bringing in the talent, but struggling with continuity pure and simple. I would elaborate further on how your claims of Xavier, St Marys, and Butler regularly beating top teams and going deep into the tournament is false, but this comment has gotten long enough.

I’m not a real Sam Smith fan. He was way too close to Jordan and that book he wrote was seen by a few as nothing more than fluff piece. I think he is stuck in the past just like some still pine for Magic’s Lakers or Bird’s Celtics. I don’t know about any of the other things that you mention in regards to fishing trips and Krause’s daughter’s wedding but its not like Krause is the bastion character…you know going behind his fellow baseball owners backs in offering Albert Bell 50MM…the way you tell it, it sounds like Floyd and Krause were made for each other.

I stand by comment that "He has done more to advance USC hoops than probably the past 5 coaches combined." USC is not a household name in D1 hoops can you name a coach who has done better at USC in the past 10-15 years? Yes, we have received some bad pub in regards to Mayo and some of the recruiting he has done. But the same can be said about Pete Carroll with Bush and some of the off the field issues that have come up in the past. I admit I’m the biggest PC honk out there but I don’t see you complaining about PC’s "issues". Is the difference because PC is winning and Floyd "isn’t"? …Floyd isn’t the only hoops coach who has recruited less than stellar players in regards to character. I think you are painting with too broad a brush here.

I don’t disagree about the teams not improving as a whole as the season moves on. I pointed that out a little over two years ago (I can’t find the piece where I wrote it though) so I think that’s a fair criticism.

I think we would all agree that Floyd probably knew something in regards to Guillory/Mayo but we’ll have to wait and see how it all shakes out. If its proven that he did then he should be fired, no questions asked. As for Jefferson, his issues were pretty much personality conflicts…it happens, he left too early and he paid the price for it but I don’t put that on Floyd, he tried to coach and teach him.

I also stand by my statement that "its not like the top names are beating down the doors to play at SC year in and year out." I don’t disagree that top talent isn’t beating down the doors of Butler, Gonzaga, Xavier, or St. Mary’s but its not like those teams are hanging NCAA Championship banners in their arenas every season. You seem like a smart guy, but basic research shows that some of the teams you mentioned have not gone “deep into the tournament” like you state. You lose a little credibility with me there. They have some nice stories to tell and those teams have pulled off some nice wins but so did ucla football in 2006 (13-9) and their season still didn’t amount to much with a loss to an average at best (thats being generous) FSU team in their bowl game.

I don’t think Floyd gets a long leash because of Pete Carroll I think he gets it because he has been competitive and getting the program some good exposure. Yes, there is the Mayo issue or even the Miller issue. Both of those are head scratchers but as long as Floyd is the coach he gets my support. When it is determined that he has hurt the program or taken it as far he can take it then it will be time for him to go and I will be the first in line to say it. My voice doesn’t matter here as this is all on the AD and I am not going to waste my voice tearing someone down until it is determined that he deserves it. It isn’t pretty but some fans are happy that SC is at least being competitive…consider the alternative like Oregon St. hoops…

especially your point no. 1. Floyd is a very good game coach and he is definitely not riding his rep from his time in the Big XII. He has revived a moribund program, and in three years has had two tournament apperances, including only the second Sweet 16 appearance for USC since 1979(!), and he apparently coached USC to the most wins in school history in 2006-2007. He also has done pretty well with kids from some pretty unlikley sources (that little PG you guys had that was tragically killed comes to mind.) Two straight tournament appearances for USC is a start toward something solid, and while I want USC to always be a doormat I don’t think you’d find many knowledgable Bruin fans who would fail to acknowledge that Floyd has made USC a competitor in the Pac-10. His teams play hard and as an X’s and O’s guy he is as good as anyone in the Pac-10. He did a great job against UCLA in the last game at the Sports Arena in 2006(?), handing us our last loss of that year until Florida in the finals IIRC, and last year’s game at Puley was a dogfight. Every time he faces off against UCLA it’s a tough game. His rep has taken a beating because of the Bulls deal, but as a college coach he is very good.

The problems I have with Floyd stem from his recruiting all those Stoneridge Prep kids and his cavalier approach toward recruiting. I don’t know if he is a “great” coach, as he has yet to put USC into the Elite 8, but I think he is good, certainly better than average. If Howland is no. 1 in the Pac-10, I’d say it’s a tossup between Montgomery (based on his job at Stanford-we don’t know yet how he’ll do at Cal), Floyd and Tony Bennet for 2nd.