A rivalry on shaky ground?
That is the opinion of L.A. Times columnist Bill Dwyer.
The late and beloved Marv Goux, longtime Trojans assistant coach and emotional compass for legions of 'SC fans for years, summed up USC-Notre Dame best.
"It's big man on big man, best against best," Goux would growl. Grown men with rooting interests on either side would ball up their fists and get teary-eyed.
Now, five days from the teams' 80th meeting, men (and women) on the Leprechaun side are balling up their fists, all right. But in anger. Those riding the Trojan Horse to yet another season of success are merely dismayed. Both know the hard truth.
This rivalry is on shaky ground.
That doesn't mean they will stop playing anytime soon, even if the embarrassment factor starts to become a real issue. Case in point: Syracuse 24, Notre Dame 23.
Things will go on for a while simply because hope springs as eternal as the need for TV ratings and the need to fill a couple of stadiums with more than 80,000 people every year.
But let's face it. This is starting to look like the Russian army against David and his slingshot.
Take it easy Bill...things are cyclical. It happens Dwyer is an old Notre Dame war horse so he is nostalgic for his alma mater and that's fine.
Yes, this is looks to be a pretty bad ND program, supposedly the talent is there, as Charlie Weis has suposedly had some pretty good recruiting classes. The disconnect though is that for all this "talent" they don't don't do anything with it. ND has only 4 first round picks taken in the NFL draft in the past 10 years. Of course that's not all on Weis, he has only been there 4 years but the problem it would appear is Weis not being able to coach that su[posed talent up. All the hype in regards to his coaching up Tom Brady looks to be more of a mirage. Love him or hate him but Bill Belechick knows how to coach and aquire talent too so it isn't just the masterful Charlie Weis.
The other problem is the magnification of the sport. When ND was running their streak up against USC to 13 in the 80's and 90's we didn't have blogs, online papers or instant updates on Sports Center. Now everyone has an opinion and it makes the chorus seem that much louder.
Even some ND bloggers have made up their minds that its time to for Weis to move on. (This is a great read!)
[B]ack when Ty Willingham, Kevin White, and Monk Malloy were doing their best to kill off the football program, many argued that it was akin to eliminating one of the pillars of Notre Dame. Really, a mediocre football program is more akin to a massive crack in the foundation of the institution. And so we must demand better. We must demand excellence. We must demand that the program be lead by those who are capable of excellence. Charlie Weis does not meet that criteria.
I will not vilify Charlie Weis. He’s a fellow Notre Dame alum. He probably works as hard as any other head coach in the nation. And, frankly, I kind of like the guy. So if you’re here to read about how awful a person Charlie Weis happens to be, or how I can’t stand his arrogance, or my recount of various Charlie Weis quotations that look so naive in hindsight, then you’ll be disappointed. I’ll leave that sort of thing to the cognitively weak among us while they pock sentences with all-caps words and multiple question marks. It doesn’t serve any purpose. Charlie Weis’ own record says all that needs to be said. Weis’ loss to a 2-8 Syracuse and a fired coach with a career .200 winning record was simply the gratuitous exclamation mark on a simple premise: Charlie Weis is not a good enough college football coach to head the Notre Dame football program.
Let that sit there for minute...
Each and every program in the nation goes through 40 years in the desert looking for its savior. ND has has a fan base that cuts far and wide so watching this spectacle has to be pretty painful for them and because there is such a thirst for ND NBC rolled the dice to give them exclusivity so it is that much more magnified that this program has really hit rock bottom.
SC will continue to schedule ND because at some point ND will get better and make it the rivalry competitive again. Yes, its ugly now but it won't stay ugly forever. ND will find the right coach who will be able to coach the talent available while putting their own stamp on a proud program. Of course as an SC fan it is easy to hate your rival but these two programs are joined at the hip. SC needs ND to get better if for no other reason that they have played some great games in the past.
0 recs |
20 comments
|
Comments
That WAS a good read!
Charlie Weis and Notre Dame DESERVE each other. I say, “Let him stay to coach another year. Hell, 10 years! Whatever it takes to find out "if” he’s a good college football coach. Lose ALL THAT MONEY".
Also, although the article in “Her Lost Sons” blog was quite good- I finally have to ask this question: “Are Notre Dame fans and alums THE MOST ARROGANT FANS in the universe?” I mean, I get it. Ucla dicks hate us USC people. I get it. But to say we’re “arrogant” is a failure to look in a mirror. (at least for dickhead fUcla nimrods, they fail at most things so. . . .that just compounds their problems even more so). But reading Domermq’s rant and diatribe- this fella has got to be on some serious medications. When has Notre Dame been relevant ?(without the help of NBC AND the East Coast media bias) I mean, he and others actually think that Notre Dame is the PREMIER football in all the history of college football. Has been and always will be. (WHAAAAAAAAAT?)
So, after reading his article- Notre Dame deserves all the pain and suffering that qoes with the yearly CFB-clamities and coaching woes that seem to persist at Notre Dame since, . . . . .since. . . . .(dare I invoke this name?) Lou “The Leprechaun” Holtz.
Greg Robinson’s available? (that’s the funniest comment that was put in after Domer’s article. Now THAT fan is a fan I can hang with)
"Oh, would you look at that! You see, I just checked. . . .and it's true. I'm out of nerves for you to try to get on. There'll be NO MORE talkin', feel me?" words I woke up saying coming out of a trip-ass dream the other night. -Bix
by BixBeiderbecke on Nov 24, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"dickhead fUcla nimrods"... LOVE IT!!!
But really, you should have added another few more choice words in there. We love you all too!!! (with that Cain/Able sort of brotherly love…) :-)
by impaulv on Nov 24, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry impaulv
Check this out: I went up to NorCal a few months ago, and attended my brother-in-law’s Sunday service. So this Baptist preacher is rantin’ and ravin’ and shamin’- towards the end of his preach, he says to the congregation, “Now, all I’m talking about is real. Even the most devout Christians back-slide and lead hypocritical lives. If some of you in here feel this applies to you fine, but by no means am I speaking of YOU IN PARTICULAR (he’s scanning his index finger across the entire church pews). But. . . . . .the person sitting NEXT TO YOU! That’s whom I may be talking about.” (the whole entire church is in an uproar.
So, impaulv, I’m not talking directly to you. . . . now, the Bruin sitting next to you. . . . . .?
"Oh, would you look at that! You see, I just checked. . . .and it's true. I'm out of nerves for you to try to get on. There'll be NO MORE talkin', feel me?" words I woke up saying coming out of a trip-ass dream the other night. -Bix
by BixBeiderbecke on Nov 24, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bix did he happen to point his finger at himself?
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 28, 2008 8:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BINGO!
That’s it. You win. Never saw it.
But you so.cal.native ?? Good one. Somebody get this Trojan a whisker biscuit. He deserves something! It’s like. . . it’s like. . .blasphemy! But not. We’ll call it Left Field Comedy. (and from this point forward, I’m changin’ the story with the preacher pointing towards the Choir Director. Hey? They seem to always end up getting in trouble someway somehow. Besides. . . .they always “look” guilty)
Whew! I need a drank!
"I was INVERTED!" -Maverick in Top Gun
by BixBeiderbecke on Nov 28, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was great dude, LOL.
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 29, 2008 3:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Curious
Why does anything before Ol Pete mean the past and therefore not relevant? Curious.
It’s funny. I don’t remember such talk about ND dumping SC after not winning for 13 years straight.
You wish you could claim the history that ND has. Any school wishes they could claim what ND has. How about 2nd winningest program in a very long history? Over .800?
So keep talking and pray that the cycle doesn’t come back around with you on the losing end. It will and you will be thanking ND for keeping the tradition alive. Maybe, you might consider yourselves lucky that such a program has YOU as its rival.
by Bruins102NCAA on Nov 24, 2008 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably because most of the time we were competitive
a lot of those games in that streak were decided by a touchdown or less. We have been handing them 31 point losses for the most part since Pete took the reigns. 2005 and 2001 being the only exceptions. The ND faithful are getting impatient.
by frak on Nov 24, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I think USC has a little bit of catching up to do with ND. Technically they are still ahead of us in the overall record department.
by frak on Nov 25, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Something for them to cling to these days.
by socaljml on Nov 25, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A little smug are we today?
There is that word again…tradition. To me it’s for people who try revive relevance. ND isn’t relevant right now, you know kind of like ucla football. Will either of these two be relevant again? Yes, but I don’t know when…
As for history, USC has plenty of its own (too long to list here) so its not like we feel we need to catch up to ND unlike say ucla football trying to play catch up with talk of monopolies being broken etc. etc.
It will cycle back around it always does but the difference here, as Frak noted above, is that SC has always played them tough even the 13 year losing streak unlike now where we have boat raced them…that’s like killing an ant with a hammer.
Not surprised that you’re blinded in not seeing that there is mutual respect between the programs- they need us as much as we need them. As for being thankful that the great ND would consider us a rival….who is your great rival??? Whomever you pick its regional…this is on a different level.
by Paragon SC on Nov 25, 2008 5:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really smug
It is a great football team that has several rivals. You happen to have two of the best, although there has been some thought expressed about discounting them as I have seen here. That gets my goat so to speak.
Other than the symbiotic relationship that you happen to share with these two schools, what do you have? Things just aren’t as fun when you have just accomplishments in my opinion. Don’t need them because your football team is better than theirs? Well that’s a question for you to answer. Most SC people that I talk to like those rivalries and I happen to like them. I’m sure we are the ones you love to hate and vice versa.
And yes the Bruins football team isn’t that great this year. I suppose we will have to content ourselves with being the greatest in the other revenue sport. That’s great and all but if you ask any Bruin about what they remember most about the last 10 years concerning UCLA athletics, it will be 13-9. That speaks to the power a rivalry.
by Bruins102NCAA on Nov 25, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You'll get your chance NEXT week
C’mon already 102! Can we JUST HAVE a little tongue-in-cheek fun with our REAL RIVALS this week- which is The Fighting Irish of Notre Dame! It’s our signature game for crying out loud!
Come back next Sunday. Feel free to foment and disparage us after our ND game. But jiminy christmas, would you quit stalking me. You tried to get in a few good ones on me over at Calif Golden Blogs a while ago, surprised you haven’t taken shots at me over at Roll Bama Roll. You MIGHT HAVE A PROBLEM? Que no?
Easy 102. Easy.
"Oh, would you look at that! You see, I just checked. . . .and it's true. I'm out of nerves for you to try to get on. There'll be NO MORE talkin', feel me?" words I woke up saying coming out of a trip-ass dream the other night. -Bix
by BixBeiderbecke on Nov 25, 2008 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This was funny
There is no other explanation for both of us showing up on the same blogs other than I’m following you? I suppose I shouldn’t have made that ONE comment over at CGB a few MONTHS ago. Okay, I get it, this too is some more tongue and cheek fun.
I am of the opinion that this is all pretty much for fun. I don’t take it very seriously so I can understand where you are coming from.
by Bruins102NCAA on Nov 25, 2008 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There you go!
Atta boy! Tongue in cheek is our friend. Yes, we can get “a little hot” over here- but only when “outsiders” come over here to tell us how to act or behave. I think I speak for most of us here- we all have a ton of Bruin friends, most of which are cool people. We not only tolerate Bruin opinions, we are godfathers, “aunts” and “uncles” to Bruin babies, and attend Bruin games with our Bruin bretheren. We are not assholes to anyone, unless they deserve a proper ’SC-asshole in their lives for that given moment.
Tongue in cheek, 102. You seem like a cool cat, but loosen up your collar from time to time. Mkay?
"Oh, would you look at that! You see, I just checked. . . .and it's true. I'm out of nerves for you to try to get on. There'll be NO MORE talkin', feel me?" words I woke up saying coming out of a trip-ass dream the other night. -Bix
by BixBeiderbecke on Nov 26, 2008 7:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too!
I apologize for my tone and tenor in my 2nd reply to you from that Ca Golden Blogs exchange. Thanks for acknowledging your end of it.
"Oh, would you look at that! You see, I just checked. . . .and it's true. I'm out of nerves for you to try to get on. There'll be NO MORE talkin', feel me?" words I woke up saying coming out of a trip-ass dream the other night. -Bix
by BixBeiderbecke on Nov 26, 2008 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not only should we dump ND we should put westwood high in the ground also.
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on Nov 27, 2008 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doc Saturday had a good article
on ND, postulating that the last 15 years have shown where the ND program is now on the national landscape. A relic of forgotten times destined for 6-8 wins each year and not much more.
Of course the counter is pretty much us, a program that for a decade looked moribund and a relic of the past, then we brought in what turned out to be the right coach and all of a sudden we were relevant again.
You know what? Fuck you Sports Gods, fuck you.
by bluemax on Nov 24, 2008 2:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
agreed on the ND alums / fans
I was reading Blue Gray Sky today, and there seems to be a distinct minority who think the current line on the game (SC by 29) is too high.
Now if they wrote that because they’ve seen some of the Trojans’ less, um, ambitious performances, then I’d say fair enough, but the justification seems to be that their defense isn’t the problem. So I eyeballed the stats, and it looks like the Irish are roughly equivalent to being mid-conference if they were in the Pac-10. If they had any offense at all, I’d say they were in with a chance, but…
There’s also a fairly anguished debate about their place in the college football firmament and how they need a coach to wake up the echoes, a few brave souls have been pointing out that it’s not the kind of job anymore where you can just get the best in and they’ll be happy to do it.
In fact, I’m surprised that I’m about to type this, but: if ND is going to fire Weis, they could do worse than emulate the ucla model – in terms of not trying to land a really established name (or living with not getting a top name) but instead hire people with obvious talent and a point to prove.
by DC Trojan on Nov 24, 2008 5:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The pendulum will always swing both ways..
You do realize that the vast majority of ND bloggers (and fans for that matter) are subway alumni and never attended the school, right? I’m an ND grad who happened to grow up in Orange County – aka USC country – and I for one can tell you that I have an extremely soft spot for the ND-USC rivalry and for USC in general. For full disclosure, I can’t think of one ND that I know who actually believes that ND even has a hairball’s chance of winning the game on Saturday. In fact, most think it will be so ugly that the score could well be 42-0 at the half. Although I hate to see ‘SC pound on the Irish, it hardly unexpected. However, this is a class act rivalry – win or lose. Even when ND had that 13 year streak against ’SC, I can’t think of one ND alum who didn’t feel the utmost respect for ’SC’s program and your university. Never once was there talk of ‘SC being "irrelevant’ or dropping the rivalry even when ‘SC posted some real stinker years. So when I read the garbage that some bloggers post (such as Paul D. Kelley), it really makes me sick to my stomach. Either guys like Paul D. Kelley are ’SC subway alumni who are thick and lack knowledge of this long-standing rivalry or he’s a young arrogant punk who did graduate from USC but lacks the appreciation of the history of this rivalry and what it means for both schools and for college football. You cannot condemn a program by using a narrow view of 10-15 years. That just shows you’re young and stupid. Show some respect. Same goes for your crosstown rival UCLA. Anything can happen, as Stanford and Oregon State has proven, and you could lose your grip in one bad year.
by homerdomer on Nov 28, 2008 12:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

by 












