The Ornstein Angle
It hard not to miss all the speculation around the whole Bush mess with the book about to be released and the website now launched. A lot of SC fans are taking a wait and see attitude before passing judgment while others are letting their thoughts be known about the whole sorted mess. Most fans have taken the attitude that if SC didn't know than how can they be punished and many point to the similar problem that Charles Woodson at Michigan went through s he was leaving school. I think that approach is fool hardy and people should be prepared for the worst.
I would prefer to take a wait and see approach but the more I read the more it's hard to ignore the hurricane that is about to come. As I said earlier in the comments section here the relationship with Mike Ornstein troubles me more than the Bush family being involved with New Era. SC and the NCAA knew and approved of Bush working for Ornstein so it would have been their responsibility to monitor their relationship in order to keep an eye out for any funny business. When Ornstein was fired by Bush it signaled an interesting turn of events as to how Bush was going to fight the allegations of this whole situation.
Ornstein obviously wanted Bush to settle so that Bush's image wouldn't be tarnished and it was clear that if Bush settled Ornstein wouldn't be exposed as to being involved in any wrongdoing. Obviously Ornstein wants to be able to keep a good relationship with USC and this situation could threaten that if he was complicit in any money changing hands with the Bush clan. This is where SC gets hurt because the NCAA could determine that SC should have known and that is where they can rule against SC.
The copies of the receipts allegedly showing where Ornstein paid for Bush's parents to fly to Berkeley to me is more damning, Ornstein should have known better and that will be difficult for him to explain away and that is where SC will get hurt. Lloyd Lake and his ilk may be the face of this mess but Ornstein has his own checkered past and his actions could do more to hurt SC than anything Lake and his crew could dream up. Lake is a pariah no doubt but while we are busy wagging our fingers at him very little is being said about Ornstein who I feel is just as bad and he may have done more behind the scenes to hurt SC than anything else that has been alleged.
It's clear that Bush could care less about SC; his unwillingness to settle with Lake opened the door for all that we are seeing now. Bush's attorney is more concerned about the possibility of Bush being the victim of extortion, which is why they chose to fight Lake on this issue. But to me they have missed the boat because Bush's image is already tarnished, and he will be forever known for this mess. With Bush's NFL career lack luster at his point and with his college career long since being finished this is what Reggie's will be remembered for. SC's image is tarnished and the fans are now angry and embarrassed.
My anger is less about the money that has allegedly changed hands than the smugness in which Bush is putting forth. People make mistakes and I can see how easy it is to be tempted so most decent people would forgive certain crimes of the heart, but to continue to act in such a way that embarrasses the school and spits in the fans faces to me is abhorrent. I am prepared for the sanctions that, in my eyes, are sure to come but if the sanctions are in reference to Ornstein SC will only have itself to blame because they didn't monitor that situation more carefully.
Where it goes from here is anybodies guess.
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Ornstein is a Pontiac game-changer, so to speak
But you're right about Ornstein - that's a substantively different enforcement question. That's a working relationship that was known, and supposedly monitored.
Both Ornstein and New Era were doing something qualitatively different from the traditional booster incentives to stay at a given college - if anything, they were an incentive to leave at the first opportunity.
But that's a rhetorical nicety - long story short, it looks like there was an oversight failure when it came to the relationship between Ornstein and Bush.
That's something substantive for the NCAA to act on. I suppose the severity of how they react will depend on whether they take a narrow view - punish for the failures of what SC should have been monitoring closely - or an expansive view - punish SC for everything that they didn't detect.
Nothing to do but wait and see, I suppose.
How about this for oversight?
They've all got their underwear tied-up in a massive wad because of our "situation" regarding Bush. Their take: "How can N(ever) C(atch) A(nyone) at A(nything) be investigating our Saint? What about the criminal Reggie Bush?"
It's hilarious!
Note to BN: it's called K-A-R-M-A.
by tapoutstylist on Jan 15, 2008 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Its not about them
True . . .
It's more of a poetic justice type-thing, considering their USC hard-on-of-hope in seeing us go down. They're pre-occupation with our program and institution is beyond comprehension. Therefore, having circumstances come from left-field at their alleged transgressions is delightful. In a Trojan-kinda way.
They're so convinced of "conspiracies", they're even using "timing" (read: upcoming bball game and RBush publication) as talking points. ?????
I laughed. I yawned. I posted. (already in my rearview mirror)
by tapoutstylist on Jan 15, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I did see it
agree with Frak no one is perfect, so worry about your own house before worrying about others.
How to monitor
Bingo!
why would anyone allow a star player to intern for an agent is beyond me. Talk about temptation!
You are right that the only monitoring could be the time cards and pay stubs but with Ornstein's background it doesn't take a genius to figure out that may want to keep a closer eye on those relationships. I'm not saying breach peoples privacy but keep an eye on it.
As for documentation you are again right, Ornstein wouldn't produce it asked but when his flunky did it for him and when said flunky kept a copy and passed it on to the authors of the book thats all the proof anyone needs that these guys shouldn't work for agents in ANY capacity. He left a papertrail and now its coming back to bite us.
While I don't condone what Bush did
I can understand why Bush and his attorneys chose to fight the issue the documentary evidence is very weak, most of the claim revolves around the word of a man with questionable character and lots of money to gain. Additionally, none of the evidence implicates USC (in my opinion at all) prior to the 2005 season (except claims made by Lake) no documents refer to 2004 or 2003 (of those published). If they take Bush's Heisman, its his own fault, but I think the national championships should be safe.
Fair points
But in following that line of thinking if they could afford a measly $4,000.00 to pay Ornstein back then why couldn't they pay the rent on the house in SD?
I'm pretty sure you can't accept ANY money from an agent, even if you paid it back, for the obvious reasons. I can see where some feel that there is a lack of evidence in regards to USC knowing and that's fine. But lets not parse whether or not the money was paid back. It should have never been loaned or accepted to begin with.
Again the NCAA's evidentiary threshold is lower than is required in a court of law. And the NCAA might be looking to add a little spice to their punishment because of all the foot dragging in all this and if it's found that the coaching staff knew and did nothing then it could get real ugly.
Yes, other players have interned for Ornstein but none of those have been implicated in accepting money and I am not aware that any of them signed with Ornstein.
Its a question of remedies
I believe that Mercedes Lewis
I'm guessing the logic of allowing players to intern with agencies is that since agents are "Sports Business Professionals," and since many athletes, especially the elite athletes, are going to make a career in professional sports, it's no different than offering internships with the LA Times for a journalism student. That's the logic. And Ornstein was considered one of the more reputable agents, though that says more about the sports representation industry than Ornstein.
As I said before, the reality is that nothing can come good when dealing with agents. Nothing. Not sports agents, Hollywood agents, real estate agents (Have you heard the RE Max radio commercials: "Buy now, because housing prices are going up, up and up!"). Nothing.
I agree
I'm confused
That being said, and after reading that Ornstein has already been quetioned through subpoena back in late 2006, what- if anything, can be gained through legal knowledge that hasn't already been discussed/questioned in 2006 that has any ties to Lake/Michaels/New Era? Honestly, I'm not being facetious here, I'm thoroughly confused as to
- any connection (through hard or evidentiary data)
- corroboration
- association
As I stated earlier, I realize there are probably documents, interviews, and depositions (Ornstein's because he was subpoenaed- if not deposed for questioning, he MUST HAVE already given sworn testimony of some sort, no?) that haven't been brought to the public light as yet, but I'm finding it difficult to believe that the NCAA or grand jury testimony hasn't FOUND ANYTHING YET with regards to impropriety between Reggie Bush and Mr. Ornstein.
by tapoutstylist on Jan 15, 2008 5:51 AM PST reply actions
there is no connection
I am not aware that Ornstein was deposed, maybe he was, but regardless the threshold of evidence is much lower for the NCAA than it is in a court of law and that is all I care about. Bush and New Era can slug it out in court all they want but the NCAA doesn't need much to see there is a problem here.
Just settling with Lake would have only fixed part of this. The minute that Ornstein had his associate pay for those tickets it opened up a whole other can of worms, one that is far more damaging because of Ornstein's "relationship" with the school.
Where the Bushes could have fixed this is to show where they reimbursed Ornstein, it wouldn't have looked good but at least the effort to repay Ornstein would have gone a long way to showing that they weren't on the take. Of course if they couldn't pay "the rent" on their house how could we expect them to pay Ornstein back. The rental agreement doesn't do them much good either, heck even I could draw one up on my Mac. If they had at least made a payment or two and then fallen behind you could then show that they were in financial trouble and reached out out of desperation but they didn't even attempt to make a payment which only shows that they were probably on the take.
Thanks Paragon
Whew, I'm hoping all reimbursements towards Ornstein are "clean" and on the up and up (qualify as inconseqeuntial/insignificant). My only hope lies in the fact that it's taken 14 months so far for the authorities? (who subpoenaed Ornstein back in Nov. 2006) to digest and scour testimony/evidence and they haven't pressed any charges or allegations of impropriety thus far.
We all know how "efficient" these bodies are?
Thanks for the clarification.
by tapoutstylist on Jan 15, 2008 8:12 AM PST reply actions

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