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Who Really Cares?

With all the gnashing of teeth that we are seeing and the increased level we are sure to see once the Bush book is released it was interesting to read an outsiders point of view of this situation

Taken in its entirety because there is no link to the post itself

POSTED 6:14 p.m. EST, January 11, 2008

BUSH STORY GROWS, DOES ANYONE CARE?

When the story broke regarding allegations that Reggie Bush and/or his family received money and/or other benefits from folks in the San Diego area who planned to represent Reggie once he made it to the NFL, it was a huge deal.

The accusations, and Reggie's handling of them, arguably dropped him out of the top spot in the 2006 draft.  And the evidence, developed primarily by Charles Robinson and Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, seemed to indicate that something happened.  Something that ultimately could require Reggie to surrender a certain trophy featuring a certain facemaskless figure throwing an awkward stiff arm with both feet planted on the ground in a clumsily wide stance.

But something else has happened over the past two years.  Even as the proof has continued to mount, creating a quietly inevitable sense that, eventually, Bush will have to give up the hardware, we wonder whether the general public cares about the case.

There's a book on the subject that comes out on January 15 (the timing of the release, for sales purposes, is very questionable), and an exclusive excerpt on Yahoo! Sports.  We started to read it, and that's when the light bulb finally came on.  Though it might have simply been the adult ADD talking, I could no longer force myself to dig into the minutiae of the matter.

I get it.  Bush and his family allegedly got money.  And there's plenty of evidence that might make the "allegedly" eventually disappear from that sentence.  I get it.  He apparently was getting paid when he shouldn't have been getting paid.  I get it.  It's wrong.  I get it.

And try as I might I just don't care anymore.      

It makes us wonder who, if anyone, really does.  USC fans might be privately worried about losing a national championship that has already been fully celebrated, but beyond that don't care.  Saints fans aren't interested in shelling out a double-sawbuck for the privilege to read bad things about Reggie.  Casual football or sports fans surely won't be sufficiently motivated to turn the book into a best seller.  And any Reggie Bush haters out there have surely had their venom neutralized by the fact that, in the pro game, he's just a guy.

The book, we predict, is not going to vault to the top of the Amazon.com or New York Times best-sellers lists.

It would be much different if Bush had become Gale Sayers, or even Maurice Jones-Drew.  Or if the Saints were still alive in the 2007 playoffs.  From a right/wrong standpoint, that shouldn't matter.  As a practical matter, it does.

And so while Yahoo! continues to do quality journalistic work on this one, uncovering documents that implicate Bush and other witnesses who corroborate the pending claims, Bush's case is ultimately no different than that of many other college players who get paid by someone while still technically "amateur" athletes.  

So when the good folks at The Big Lead rightly ask why ESPN is ignoring the Bush book, the answer might simply be that Bristol, like many of us, has moved on.

We're not saying we'll never mention the case again.  But this isn't Woodward and Bernstein stuff.  And our apathy about the situation speaks to much a deeper problem with college sports -- one that is so deeply engrained in the culture that it perhaps can no longer be termed a "problem."

It's a reality.  Kids who excel at college football are going to get paid.  By someone.

And maybe, in a roundabout way, there's some justice in that.  Given the revenue they generate in return for sacrificing their bodies in the name of an "education" that most of them wouldn't have wanted anyway, they should get paid.

I obviously disagree with some of the stuff that is written here; paying players is a Pandora's box that can do little to help the situation.

But I do agree with the premise that because this has dragged on for so long nobody cares anymore except those who follow this program or those who are haters. To the latter, they are insignificant to us because they want us to be humiliated. Those of us who do care are concerned about the future of this program so that is why we keep tabs on what is going on.

That being said, the bigger issue for those of us who do care is that up to this point there has been no "smoking gun" that lights the world on fire in regards to any knowledge that officials at USC knew this was going on. Sure, the reason that nothing has happened was because NO ONE was willing to speak to the NCAA. It is much clearer to me now that Lloyd Lake is only looking for a payday. He couldn't get Bush to settle so he threatens a lawsuit and threatens talk to the NCAA, that it took him almost 2 years to file said lawsuit and then speak to the NCCA while ultimately SELLING his story to the two authors who wrote this book shows that he MAY have something on Bush but nothing on USC. Yes, he alleges that SC knew but he has yet to provide any proof only innuendo.

Some feel that there isn't much to all this as is written here:

Still looking for"smoking gun"evidence on USC/Bush

Friday, January 11, 2008, 02:04 PM PST [General]

We've all seen the outrageous headlines, the claims that USC's dynasty could be brought down by "Bushgate."

The National Enquirer has nothing on Yahoo or the backers of the new book "Tarnished Heisman" when it comes to making big claims -- sources like Yahoo keep  suggesting that USC could lose one or both of the National Titles USC earned for the 2003 and 2004 seasons over the Bush mess.

The problem with all these suggestions, all these overly-dramatic innuendos, is that there still isn't any EVIDENCE out there that suggests that any of those claims COULD even possibly come true.

The documented "evidence" of any type of payments to the Bush family consists of three things:

  1.  Papers (let's assume them to be genuine for now) showing that in March of 2005 Reggie Bush stayed in a Las Vegas hotel with an agent and at the expense of an agent, with billings of $623.63.  (It is claimed that Reggie Bush actually reimbursed the agent, so it was simply a matter of having the charges placed on a card and him later repaying the agent for the charges Bush made.)
  2.  Papers (again, let's assume them to be genuine for now) showing that a newly started management company purchased a San Diego area home in March of 2005 that was then occupied by Reggie Bush's mother and step-father from April 2005 to April 2006.  (The terms on which they stayed there remain unclear.)
  3.   Papers (again, let's assume them to be genuine for now) showing that some airline tickets were purchased in November 2005 by someone related to an agent that were supposedly used by members of Reggie Bush's family to attend the USC-Cal game in November 2005.  (Again, it is claimed that the family reimbursed the agent, and that the booking was the only courtesy they received.)

I don't think that it is as cut and dried as that. The whole Ornstein angle really hasn't been explored and that concerns me more because SC knew Bush was working for him in the summer. All the Bush clan had to do was produce a rental agreement for the house they lived in and all they have to do here is show documentation that they reimbursed those expenses. To me this is far from over.

I am in the camp of no longer caring about this until the NCAA makes their results of the investigation public and hands down their ruling. But I am surprised that so many would put credence into the word of an individual who has such a shady past, that has yet to offer any solid evidence that SC knew, simply because it furthers their agenda.

The outside world (pro football) really couldn't care less because this happened so long ago with little being put forth to resolve it. They also know that college athletics is a dirty business and so it really isn't a surprise to them and this won't be the last time this happens. A couple of people I have talked to that follow the pros carefully laugh at the shock, outrage and righteous indignation that has been written about this on both sides within the college ranks.  Their thought process is as simple as the last short paragraph above:

It's a reality.  Kids who excel at college football are going to get paid.  By someone.

And maybe, in a roundabout way, there's some justice in that.  Given the revenue they generate in return for sacrificing their bodies in the name of an "education" that most of them wouldn't have wanted anyway, they should get paid.

In a society that always roots for the underdog and the oppressed it's kind of hard to argue with that...

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Doesn't ESPN seem to care more?
Because a competitor, Yahoo! Sports, scooped them.

by Zoulou on Jan 13, 2008 8:04 PM PST reply actions  

Scooped?
looks like this "scoop" was more Lake feeding Yahoo information than Yahoo actually digging something up.

Otherwise we would have heard much more about this much earlier. And there still isn't any smoking gun tying SC to all this, that's the key here and they have yet to find anything with all their "investigative" skills.

by Paragon SC on Jan 13, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I hear there's a bed somewhere?
A cabal?
A cahoot?

AN EMPIRE! (that's it! BINGO... :@) <--Mr. Itchynose

by tapoutstylist on Jan 13, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Charles Robinson from Yahoo! Sports
Broke the original story, way back in 2006. They are the ones who confronted the Griffin's. So you are incorrect, sir, Yahoo! Sports actually did some reporting. At the time it was considered a big deal, an Internet Portal scooping ESPN, the LA Times. Evidence of the decline of the MSM. So yes, ESPN and the LA Times were scooped. They way I see it, Lake has no idea what SC's knowledge was. Nor does he care. Bush knows and he's not talking. If and when the lawsuit Lake filed progresses to depositions, then we'll no more. Still, the NCAA was hard on Oklahoma, and they self reported. The difference, I believe, is that the dealership where Bomar interned had registered with the Athletic Department. That's not the issue in this case. But Scott Wolf even notes that the NCAA is a very capricious organization.

by Zoulou on Jan 13, 2008 9:06 PM PST reply actions  

OK so lets follow that line of thinking
Robinson didn't just wake up one day and "hey, lets dig into Reggie Bush's family finances". Somebody had to tip him off. I realize that this is how the big stories "break" but there wasn't any reason for anyone at the LAT or ESPN to go investigating Bush out of the blue. Someone had an axe to grind so they ratted Bush out, fine, but you won't convince me that this was good journalism. Bush's actions have put the program in jeopardy because of his greedyness (sic?).

That it was Yahoo and not the other two media giants is intriguing, but again Robinson really hasn't broken anything new until the book came out and it still only points to the Bushes and not USC. More important for the two years that he has been investigating this he still can't show that SC knew anything and his only "sources" are those who were willfully going to commit wrong doing in regards to jeopardizing Bush's eligibility. So their motives are tainted from the word go and as I said earlier; that it has taken 2 years to file a lawsuit or speak the NCAA shows that this hardly a slam dunk.

If they had Bush dead to rights why not file the lawsuit as soon as Bush signed with Ornstein? It must have been clear that the parents had no intention of paying the rent so why not go after them early on? This gives credence to the extortion angle though I'm not necessarily buying into that.

More to your point, you said: "They way I see it, Lake has no idea what SC's knowledge was. Nor does he care." that's incorrect as the book excerpt states that Lake claimed to be in the room when a phone call allegedly took place with Pete Carroll informing him of the Bush mess. Lake has yet to prove that there is any connection to SC. That doesn't mean that there isn't one or that someone else can prove it but Lake hasn't and he has been the only one to have thrown out accusations about SC's knowledge and he has yet to back them up.

Again, the cut and dried version to me is this if Bush is so guilty why has it taken so long to get to this point (I think he is). If its me I ask Bush to settle up once, twice or even three times then I go public but it sure wouldn't take me close to 2 years to finally go public. I would want my money and fast. If Lake had all this documentation from the word go why did it take so long to get to this point.

As for OU, they are immaterial to this and Frak has done a good job of debunking the myth that OU self reported. Their transgressions were booster related the Bush mess is agent related.

by Paragon SC on Jan 14, 2008 6:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Rumor was at the Combines
That's where Charles Robinson got started. Supposedly it was all over the Combines.  Why didn't anyone else check it out.  That says more to the institutional laziness of big media than anything else.

Allegedly, Lake was in the room regarding a phone call to Carroll regarding the housing arrangement.  The housing arrangement is the least of USC's worries.  USC is the Bush-Ornstein relationship is problematic, IMHO.

The fanbased party line seems to be, "If Bush is quilty, then why did Lake take so long,, why did Yaeger have to pay him, if I were Lake ..."  Paragon, please do not fall into this line of thinking, because if and when sanctions hit, you'll twist yourself into a corkscrew trying to figure out "Why?  Why?  Why?"

As to why did Lake take so long:  I have no idea.  Leverage? Incompetence?  He's a lying scumbag?  Who knows.  But note this, it really is immaterial why he took so long.

Lake is a lying scumbag, that's true, but he may have the goods in this case.  People forget that we are dealing with an element of humanity that let's say is less than honorable.  So who really knows why things are played out they way have.  That you would have done things differently, well, your not a convicted felon.  They live in an entire separate world, with different rules, codes of conduct, etc.

But remember this: If everything ever said or documented by criminals, con men, etc., were completely discounted, the jail,would be very empty.  

       

by Zoulou on Jan 14, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Yaeger's Website is up.
And it is completely underwhelming.

The alleged payment b/w Ornstein and Bush is bothersome, but as for the rest, no new smoking gun.

by Zoulou on Jan 14, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

We're on the same page here

I have said numerous times over the past few months that the Bush/Ornstein relationship posed some real trouble for SC, more so than the New Era side of things. I think SC is going to be hit with sanctions, this whole situation is way too explosive and shady for the NCAA to do nothing so I won't be twisting my self into a corkscrew asking why when its pretty clear to me. It's coming and I'm prepared for it.

The sanctions will probably be along the lines of "should have known" as it pertains to Ornstein. It was a known fact that Bush worked for Orenstein so the easy question is why didn't SC monitor his work with Ornstein and subsequent relationship more carefully.

What would piss me off is if the sanctions fall under the term "did know" and nothing was done about it. That would show me that there was a lack of institutional control and heads should roll...period, I don't care who they are as anyone with knowledge ultimately hurt the program because of their silence.

by Paragon SC on Jan 14, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Irony, or not.
is that Mercedes Lewis also interned for Ornstein.  

by Zoulou on Jan 14, 2008 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I know about Lewis
and that he he worked for Ornstein.

Believe it or not there is a family connection to Lewis so I follow his career with more than just a passing interest.

by Paragon SC on Jan 14, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Agents
Sports, entertainment, real estate ...

Nothing good comes from them.

by Zoulou on Jan 14, 2008 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Oklahoma did not self report
You can't self report when the NCAA already knows what happened.  I love how everyone believes OU reported themselves.  Wow they have a great PR dept.

by frak on Jan 14, 2008 1:58 AM PST reply actions  

As for who cares
bruins- don't need to go into why on this one

OU- cause they got busted, and want to know why we haven't been busted yet even though the cases are monumentally different

Michigan- Because they hate losing in the Rose Bowl to us almost every time

Everyone who is sick of watching us win every year- self explanatory reason there

by frak on Jan 14, 2008 2:36 AM PST reply actions  

Huh?
"Everyone who is sick of watching us win every year..."

These people exist???

by Defender90 on Jan 15, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah
They fall under the "everyone else but us" category.  People hate us for the same reason they hate the Yankees.

by frak on Jan 15, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Who cares?
I think it's safe to answer that thusly:

We'll see come Jan. 15th

The comments Paragon quoted, I think, are right on the mark.

  1. Who's gonna be THAT interested to read through that drivel?
  2. Is it gonna generate enough copies sold to warrant even a Top 25 national list?
  3. Will it perhaps be kind enough to include ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE?
  4. Will the books tie-ins (website, hard/evidentiary data accompanying said website in the form of receipts, tax-return info, phone calls, e-mails, etc) be enough to compel the law outside of NCAA's jurisdiction to become involved)
  5. As Zoulou said, the DEPOSITION STAGE! (when, where, will it ever occur?) This could be the make/break point because, as Zoulou said on another thread- the Feds aren't looking too kindly towards perjury. See Marion Jones, and soon- see Barry Bonds.
All this is incumbent on the momentum "Tarnished Image" generates- mostly by the amount of copies and sales.

Who cares? (I care. Hoping the book FLOPS!) Don't get me wrong. In the end, if Reggie Bush and his family broke ANY laws of the NCAA code(s), or local/State/Federal laws, or laws as it applies to student/athlete conduct at USC- I want them to suffer the full brunt of punishment. I don't pity their situation whatsoever. I'm hoping Pete Carroll's reputation and program aren't sullied to the point of ir-repair that would force him or those on his staff to have to resign or leave in disgrace.

Even for those bruin-affiliated fans who frequent CC, would you? (i mighta just walked into i didn't really want to on that one, but i'm not taking it back. i'd like to know)

by tapoutstylist on Jan 14, 2008 4:29 AM PST reply actions  

I care
only in the sense that its sad that Reggie's accomplishments on the field will be forever associated with his breaking of the rules.  I care about what happens to the USC program.  There's nothing that I can personally do to change whats going to happen, so I don't end up giving it too much thought.  The NCAA has always been fair to us in the past.  We had 2 minor transgressions that they dealt with fairly, so even if they do throw down the hammer, I'm willing to accept their judgment.

Regardless of what many of USC's rivals think, its a pretty clean program from an NCAA perspective.  You have Leinart's EPSN clip, and Jarrett's rent issue.  In 7 seasons under Carroll, thats all that has really happened that concerns the NCAA.  So I think they would be hard pressed to hit us with the institutional control penalty.

by frak on Jan 15, 2008 12:36 AM PST reply actions  

Wholeheartedly agree with you
Even Yaeger has stated on record (through interview with Adam Rose/LA Times) that he doesn't believe USC is culpable (after vetting through copious documents, emails, phone call records, and Lake's corroborating witnesses) in any way whatsoever.

He does, however, believe Bush was totally on the take and punked them out in the end. To that end, Yaeger believes Bush should at least lose his Heisman in a worst case scenario.

I'm hoping he's right (in a worst case scenario- really: I'm holding out hope that Bush has "plausible" reasons for the matter and that he is vindicated in the end. what? i'm Trojan THROUGH AND THROUGH! so, too, is Bush. i'm not bailing on him now. he made HORRIBLE decisions as a 20 year old. i'm sure EVERYONE has. he just happens to be a celebrity. but he's also human)- and that USC comes out of this unscathed.

One thing's for sure. I'm not ashamed of being a Trojan for life. I'm proud. Not proud of RBush's shenanigans. But what can one do? This is how I'm built, for better or for worse.

by tapoutstylist on Jan 15, 2008 6:11 AM PST up reply actions  

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