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On Accountability

It is not surprising to read all the nonsense that I have read about accountability in regards to the McNair situation.

Recognizing the wrong in McNair's actions should be obvious to anyone with half a brain. I am not 100% accepting of his explanations that I read in this morning's L.A. Times. But I am also not going on a crusade to find the truth. It is pretty obvious to me that McNair was involved with something more than what he was convicted for, but at what point do we continue to demand a pound of flesh. Whether or not we like the punishment that was handed down the matter, in the eyes of the local jurisdiction is closed, it doesn't matter that some aren't happy but it.

I seem to remember a comment that one of our rivals made from across town about admitting to a DUI/DWI that he was charged with. This was months ago so it is a little fuzzy but I said to myself "that's cool the guy owned up to some serious bad judgment." But I also thought "in this situation, with internet anonymity, that's easy to do because there is really no accountability." No one will question him harshly for his actions especially in the friendly confines of our rival site.

I am not going to go on a witch hunt and demand to know what Pete Carroll knew and when he knew it in regards to the McNair hiring. As I stated yesterday McNair's actions are disgusting and while he may have been guilty of much worse it was only proven that he did something less egregious at least within the statues of the law. It doesn't mean that I am convinced that he is innocent but I refuse to dwell on it. I am not sure what the hiring practices are at USC but I am sure that they are different from across town because they are a private institution and they are not required to follow the rules of the state. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do their due diligence but the are not beholden to follow any other guidelines than those that university sets out. I have stated before that character matters but at what point does a person get to go on with their lives after they have paid their debt to society?

Would it be fair to castigate the commenter from across town because he did something many years ago that is considered much more reprehensible today because of MADD and all of attention brought to that sort of action? Is that a mark on his character that can never be taken away? I think not. It is easy to demand accountability when you hide behind anonymity, as only a skilled marksman can hit a moving target. Is it right to ask for McNair to be fired for something he did over 10 years ago with his debt to society already paid? Simple answer, no. I read a comment off blog recently that made the assumption that when you couple this past situation with the allegations that McNair was involved with the Reggie Bush scandal and the "White Nation" thing that it is a case of once a crook always a crook. That's an awfully big assumption on that person's part, so if you lie once are you a liar forever? Are we now at the point of being "innocent until investigated?"

If you care what the losers from across town think then you're in a catch-22. Not getting outraged and demanding heads to roll puts you in a position of not having any character a all and simply being an enabler to the situation, at least in their eyes. Jumping up and down and screaming for action while lighting your hair on fire only emboldens them to say "see, we are right..." I don't care but I find it ironic for some to demand the accountability of others but not have the stones to shed their anonymity when demanding it. To me it is simply cowardly.

But accountability comes in different forms. And if you are going to get on a soap box and preach you better have your facts straight .In their haste to get their side of the story out and minimize the PR hit that is sure to come, the Daily Trojan has missed the boat in addressing the issue.

The purpose of news is to inform its readership of new, relevant events. Good journalists report with progress in mind, but more often than necessary, news organizations beat stories to the ground, serving no good to the public.

[...]BruinsNation took a sports rivalry to an inappropriate level, bringing back McNair's already public convictions, forcing him to deal with issues that should remain in the past. The site practiced poor journalism as little - if any- good can be done by the resurfacing of McNair's actions.

While we do not condone McNair's previous behaviors, no new evidence of McNair mistreating animals has come to light. BruinsNation's story is not newsworthy - rehashing a 14-year-old, already settled issue does nothing for readers today. The statute of limitations has expired, McNair has paid his dues to society. Nothing more can be asked of him than to not engage in such behavior again, and there is no reason to believe he has.

BruinsNation has used the media frenzy fueled by the Vick case to take advantage of McNair and has accused the Trojans of acting inhumanely by employing a man who was convicted of a crime, as if no coaches at UCLA have ever themselves been convicted.

STOP IT!

First, BruinsNation is NOT practicing journalism. They are a fan site just like Conquest Chronicles. They are bloggers just like we are pure and simple, they are passionate about their team and even more passionate about hating USC. That's fine it cuts both ways here as well. BN, like CC does not get press credentials nor do they get paid to write what they write. As I said yesterday, I may not like the results of their methods but they did what the MSM should have done when McNair's name popped up on the radar screen in regards to the Vick case. I may not like the fact that McNair's past was brought up, as he should have the ability to carry on with his life without continued persecution but the info is out there and in this age of information some will look to bring up others past for their own gain be it for ego or profit that is just how it is. It is how they operate over at BN, anyone with half a brain already knows that. They only care about the salacious stories to make those they disagree with look bad so it shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone.

The DT can't even get the name of the coach right, his name is TODD McNair NOT Tom McNair. Whether we agree or not about McNair's past, those covering the story, especially from the SC angle have a higher duty to get the story straight and not worry about what is good journalism or that a rival blog "supposedly" brought the level of this rivalry down to an unacceptable level. Christ, stop whining! They got the scoop so accept it. There are many other angles here to examine not whether or not BN is doing good journalism or where the rivalry is. Take a good look around; the rivalry is in a shambles for many reasons. It is certainly not the rivalry that I grew up with and I don't expect it to get any better anytime soon.

Accountability comes in many different forms; the question is will those who demand it be willing provide it when it is expected from them. It always comes full circle.

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Blogism or journalism. . . .
Was it really a "scoop"?
I guess time will tell if this "news" story takes shape and accountability truly becomes an issue.

There are games to be played, fun to be had, victories to savor and hopefully memories to be made. . . . this issue has already wasted too much of my personal time and energy.

Much love and peace to Coach, Staff, and Players!
Fight On!
Fight On!
(to the break o'dawn)

by tapoutstylist on Aug 30, 2007 1:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Some thoughts
What was done was reprehensible, regardless of whether or not there was dogfighting involved.  I'm not going to be able to look at Coach McNair the same way again after learning that we was involved with this.

I'm not going to demand an investigation or call for his firing, because it's in the past, and he's been punished for it.  I do hope that he says more about what happened, and that there are clear indications that he recognizes that what he did was awful.  I haven't seen that yet, but this news just broke a short time ago.

As I've said before with respect to disciplinary issues, what's important is the message that's being sent to the team, not to us.  The "he's in charge of leading 18-year old kids" line is thrown around, and is certainly true, but he's in charge of leading a particular group of 18-year old kids, and what's important there is what he does and says with respect to them, not to the public.  I can't say whether that's taking place, but I sure hope it is.

It's also interesting that we're in a fundamentally different position than the bloggers across town with respect to our attitudes towards our respective football programs.  There's no doubt that we both want success, and would welcome it from any source, but they see their coach and administration as an impediment to success, whereas we see ours as a source of it.  I'd probably be lying if I said that that didn't color my reaction to PC, and they'd probably be lying if they said it didn't do the same with respect to KD, as objective as both of our views may feel.

There are other factors to take into account, of course, but I think that factors into the reaction.

by Boy Howdy on Aug 30, 2007 2:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The rivalry is fine
Sorry, I have lots of friends/work acquaintances who went to UCLA and the spirit of the only cross-town rivalry in the country is as it always has been as far as I can see. Yeah, it heats up during Rivalry Week and I know some of my Bruin friends are s-i-c-k of the USC football program's dominance. I totally get that; I would feel the same way if the situation was reversed. However, the rivalry is still a fun way to emphasize our school spirit, and we all do it and yet still get along.

The mistake is equating the BN perspective as representative of the rivalry or even that side of the rivalry. One website does not represent a much larger group (the same being true for CC). I said my piece on the McNair story already. Moving forward, I would suggest it's pointless to get worked up about whatever slimes off of that site. It's been clear for some time now that those in charge there are not interested in either a) any sort of objective truth or b) an actual dialogue, tongue-in-cheek or otherwise. Remember the counsel, "don't sweat the small stuff"? Well, they definitely qualify in that regard, delusions of Woodward/Bernstein-worthy sleuthing included. Trojan football starts Saturday and that's what we need to get worked up about.

Fight On!

by Defender90 on Aug 30, 2007 2:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hell yeah! Gimme some. . . .
<knuckle-touch> Defender90!

that's some smooth-ass shizzy Def90!
mucho mad-ups to you-

Fight On!

by tapoutstylist on Aug 30, 2007 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing I would like to see stopped
The notion that we are accountable to anyone across town, or owe them an explanation for anything.  I say it till I'm red in the face, I don't care now, and will never care forever in the future what they think of us.

by frak on Aug 30, 2007 4:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

that's not coming from me...
we are accountable only to ourselves. They can kiss my ass across town. I am not going to light my hair on fire over this but I do have an opinion. 'nuff said.

by Paragon SC on Aug 30, 2007 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree with you more Frak . . .
and here's why:

When I first came to this blog a month or two ago, the Coach Scott/UCLA issue was going full-steam here. How it went over at the Daily Trojan, I don't know and don't recall.

But if memory serves me right, a few posters and maybe Paragon himself- wrote some snooty (funny and on-the-money nonetheless), snide, and "colorful" comments regarding KD's mishaps, dereliction, and veracity. So, it's no wonder there are some here at CC who "must" maintain the appearance of "pc etiquette" and self-flagellation over the matter.

Point is, if in fact the Daily Trojan doesn't have such "clouds" over their integrity- they are, in my opinion, completely free to say and write whatever they please.

I happen to totally agree with DJ's position. And I mean no disrespect to CC's position on the matter whatsoever, but DJ has valid reasons for their response to the McNair issue (so long as the equation is as I have presented it)

Therefore, HELL YEAH Frak, why should BBPete and Coach T have to answer and account for this bs? It's retarded.

(btw frak, when I first read your post- I whooped all the out my office doors. peers and admin thought I was all coughed-up on goofballs. admittedly, I wanted to respond to you like this: "Alright Frak. But tell us. What do you REALLY have to say on the matter?")

Bitchen-Frickin-Camaro Dude!

(sidenote: USClink- you did nothing wrong. No one has. those duncebuckets at BN . . . fuggitaboutit. . . they're daft)

'SC: 44
Idaho: 10  (that's my story, and I'm stickin to it)

   

by tapoutstylist on Aug 30, 2007 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not at all
They can attempt to frame a "scandal" and then demand that USC alumni, students, fans, etc., respond in a way that's acceptable to them. They can also get stuffed. Our team, our opinions, our agenda.

by DC Trojan on Aug 30, 2007 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah that's true DC, but. . .
if half the politicians in Washington can't remove a Cabinet official and President in a timely manner. . . . .

and it took 4 slimeballs 5 months to crawl into the Fed's pocket to force THE NFL'S FRANCHISE PLAYER to bow down to the strong arm of the law. . .

then I think it's gonna take THE ENTIRE UCLA UNIVERSE to come down on Coach T coupled with a healthy majority of America's Trojan-haters in print and media with a dose or two of half-hearted protests from PETA and like-minded affiliations add a pinch of interest from our Federal officials and an all-of-the-sudden affliction of spineless-back syndrome from AD Garrett to bring USC to have to answer to "framed" scandal.

my money's on: won't happen

by tapoutstylist on Aug 30, 2007 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup yup
You can't have a rational conversation with an irrational person.

by Defender90 on Aug 30, 2007 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying you did paragon
Its more of a message to the hotheads across town who are demanding accountability.

Ill tell you what I see.  They went all crazy about E Scott and his job application about who knew what, and when.  But now after Scott is back with the team, all those demands for information, and investigation have vanished.  Instead they want to know what we are going to do about a 14 year old crime.  I'll tell you what I'm going to do, and thats not a damn thing.

by frak on Aug 30, 2007 5:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A diary
challenging the bruins to follow through with their demands for an explanation on Eric Scott's hiring would be an excercise in futility.  Choosing to argue with an irrational person is pointless.  

I'll post a diary when BN follows through with getting an explanation on how Eric Scott got through the application process after 3 convictions.  When they follow through with finding out if Scott lied, someone ignored his convictions, or a mistake was made with his application, I will start to think about addressing the McNair issue.

Finish what you guys started bruins, they you will have some credit with me.  Demanding answers to tough questions from your own AD isn't such a big deal if you forget about the whole thing a month later and leave the whole matter unresolved.

by frak on Aug 30, 2007 6:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't see it as arguing...
more just staying on message and keeping the Scott issue at the forefront.

I think your claims are valid.

by Paragon SC on Aug 30, 2007 6:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Last year
A buddy of mine rebutted a bruin poster about how classless SC fans were after the 13-9 loss.  His rebuttal reffered to the altercation where multiple bruins attacked an SC fan and put his eye out.  Someone then promptly deleted his post and banned his IP from posting on BN again.  They simply aren't worth arguing with.  It serves no purpose.

 Beat the Vandals.

Go Trojans.

Go Booty.

Go USC

The above is what I'm focused on, and looking forward to.

by frak on Aug 30, 2007 6:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wise choice
Again, the mistake is thinking anything you could say would make any difference. There is no interest on that side in any actual discussion. Let it continue as its own self-contained universe.

by Defender90 on Aug 30, 2007 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ignore it all you want
From Paragon SC

"Eric Scott is much more sever because this is a person in the employ of the university...

If the school had prior knowledge and looked the other way then that goes to the core of an institutions values...

Something is definitely not kosher at the Morgan Center...

had the school done a better job of due diligence he, Scott, never gets hired in the first place...

I DO care.  Not because it will give me something to write about, not because of the salaciousness of the story but because in the end, regardless of whom you root for, young men's lives will be influenced."

And on McNair

"at what point do we continue to demand a pound of flesh...

I am not going to go on a witch hunt and demand to know what Pete Carroll knew and when he knew it in regards to the McNair hiring...

but the[y] are not beholden to follow any other guidelines than those that university sets...

he should have the ability to carry on with his life without continued persecution...

They only care about the salacious stories to make those they disagree with look bad...

we are accountable only to ourselves."

First of all, it should be pointed out that the story was originally brought up because a USC fan said "You're just jealous that our coach doesn't have convicts on his staff.".  This was not some mad witch hunt.

Secondly, neither Eric Scott nor Todd McNair have committed a crime while in their current job, so their situations are the same (especially when the nature of each's convictions are examined).  BN was highly critical of UCLA when Eric Scott's convictions emerged, and as the above comments show, their concerns were echoed on this blog.  When the McNair scandal emerged, BN asked the same questions about his hiring.  Apparently, though, these questions are inappropriate since it's not their team.  Am I right in assuming then that at the time of Eric Scott's arrest Conquest Chronicles was a UCLA blog?

Even if BN is, as Defender90 says, "not interested in either any sort of objective truth," at least it is not hypocritical enough to attack a blog for something it did a month earlier.

by SuperBruinMan on Sep 5, 2007 7:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why don't you try something like. . . . .
 . . . .READING! (it might help there, SuperWhateverUWannaCallYourself)

Paragon has been nothing but "professional" throughout this whole McNair deal. He's put himself way way out on a limb in giving BN the full-on benefit of the doubt and integrity-side of the issues. Most of the posters, such as myself, can give a RoseBowlRat's ass about what BN or any other Bruin-fan has to say.

You can criticize some posters from this site, but neither Paragon, nor DC has been hypocritical of this situation in any shape, way, or form.

(btw: next time, instead of gleaning your position to post from any one of us here at CC, come up with your own original thought, will ya?  thanks Super?? )

by tapoutstylist on Sep 6, 2007 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How ya'll doing RE: the McNair issue besides. . .
. . . . besides the fact that it WENT NOWHERE!

by tapoutstylist on Sep 6, 2007 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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