So what happened with McKnight?

by Paragon SC on Feb 9, 2007 7:30 PM PST in Recruiting

Welcome to the show!
Photo: CNN/SI

I got a kick out of a comment on Wolf's Blog earlier this evening: "As the Coliseum Turns". It is beginning to feel like a soap opera.

Pete Carroll is denying any wrong-doing and until someone shows me any wrongdoing his word is good enough for me. I'm not going to continually walk around being scared of my shadow every time some potential discrepancy comes up on the radar. After a while you get the feeling a lot of this attention is just because of how successful we have been. It happens every where so why should this be different.

That's about how it feels. Who knows what the story is here, but I do know I won't be commenting on it in either direction until I know what the full story is. Based on PC's Cowherd interview and comments in the local media it does appear that there are two different stories, who knows? The way things play out these days I wouldn't be surprised if LSU AND ND were behind all this. Recruiting is a dirty business.

I have seen all sorts of stories about what this coach did or what that coach did and after a while you just sit back and laugh. College football is at an all time high in terms of popularity and we have some great games that have launch the interest in this sport to new levels. With that increased interest come the focus on all of the other aspects of the sport. An the one that feed the machine so-to-speak is recruiting, so much that all of the major site are even tracking juniors in high school and there is a Story on BON about offering scholarships to Sophomores. Now that’s just unreal.

We end up selling our souls for these kids when they aren’t equipped enough to make normal teenager decisions and put them into situations that spin out of control. Of course it is compounded when the fan base calls a kid stupid when he doesn’t make a decision that is their favor and questions his or his parents intelligence when the decision is made. I especially loved the remark that I saw elsewhere that questioned McKnight’s smarts about picking USC because of the Annenberg School. The kid knows that this is THE best school of its kind and just because it’s at SC he is considered stupid for picking a school that would further his education which is what a lot of the complaints about SC are about, We're not smart enough, Blah, Blah, Blah. You can’t have it both ways. Freaking hypocritical and Moronic!

I do know that it could have well been confusion on McKnight as the heat of the moment was pretty wild at the time of his announcement, I mean come on, he's is the top rated player in the country, of course it will be a circus. So as I head out this week on business I will watch from the cheap seats to see how it all plays out.

Regardless of how it all turns out you can already hear the screaming about SC being a bunch of cheaters and the like, oh well it wouldn't be a normal day if SC weren't called out on something. Life's a bitch when not on top, or put another way unless you're the lead dog the view is petty much the same.

Should be fun to watch!

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Paragon

You'll never hear me insult the Annenberg School of Communication because that is precisely where my fiancee went! She was so excited when she found out that was the reason why this player came to USC. Its actually really good news for USC for one reason; you have a player with a good head on his shoulders.

Its clear by this statement that he thinks education is the top priority. While this might change in the future if he has a fantastic career in USC Football and can be a high draft pick, he does know the real reason why you go to school. You go to school to get a real education.

Right off the bat, I like this kid. He knows what he wants and what he wants is to expand his mind. You guys have a real classy kid in this Mcknight. That's way better sometimes than a Heisman winner. You have a guy that will represent the Trojan Family in classy fashion. Congrats. UCLA will be blessed to have players of the same mental fortitude/intelligence.

by BruinFan1 on Feb 10, 2007 1:35 AM PST 0 recs

I gusss that was my point...

people like yourself are rational fans who root for their school but also throw a little trash talk around.

That's cool, what's a rivalry without a little trash talk?

but some fans constantly harp on academics so they have opened the door to criticism when the kid states that he looked at the academic side of the situation and found that SC fit he his needs better.

Credibility goes right out the window when you criticize the kid for making a priority of what you have harped on incessantly.

UCLA DOSE NOT COME CLOSE when it comes to communication studies. WE all know the Annenberg School is tops and the the only thing that comes close in prestige, while sightly different and at the post-graduate level, is the J school at Columbia in NYC.

So to me its disingenuous at the best and, put adjective here, at the worst to harp on the academic side of thing with a sanctimonious attitude then criticize the kid for doing just that, looking at the academic side of things first, simply because he picked your rivals school.

The ironic thing to me is that he probably has some pretty good grades and if wanted to he probably could enrolled across town if he chose to, but the kid has a talent that we won't ever see in Westwood, at least not until they get a coach who will raise the level of this rivalry back to where it should be. So why would he go there?

That thud you heard was the lead balloon destroying others credibility.

by Paragon SC on Feb 10, 2007 5:39 AM PST 0 recs

What the hell are you gonna do with some people?

I get what you're saying. UCLA is better in academics than USC GENERALLY. But, USC kicks our ass in communications. That's why I like this guy. He wants the best for his mind. That's great.

I grew up in a huge UCLA family (both my parents and all my aunts and uncles whent to UCLA or UCLA Law/Medical School). My younger brother, who is 16, wants to do film. I keep telling him that his priority should be USC. He gets pissed all the time because of all the UCLA talk that we throw around. Sometimes you have to throw aside pride and let people know whats up.

I told my brother that USC was the best choice for film school and after much reluctance (and research), that's where he wants to go. You have to point people in the direction that will give them the best opportunity to succeed, so I pointed my brother to USC (God I feel dirty. Where's my Irish Spring???).

That's the reality. Such is the same with Annenberg. Also, I've been in Annenberg and its a great facility. Have you seen that huge TV in the lobby?

by BruinFan1 on Feb 10, 2007 7:43 AM PST 0 recs

Secondary Violation

Secondary violations happen at schools all the time. Every year institutions report on themselves for dozens of secondary violations that occur. Things like this happen when the institution accidently violates one of the many NCAA rules. Its a normal thing and usually when the schools inform the NCAA about them, there is minor or no punishment.

I would think that it would be a nuclear mistake for Carroll and USC to lie about the alleged phone call. Since Carroll is denying it happened, knowing that a lie can be uncovered with a simple phone record, I believe that hes telling the truth. For him to risk so much in lying to cover up a secondary violation like this, doesnt make sense.

by frak on Feb 10, 2007 9:26 AM PST 0 recs

Here Is The Real Question...

I know why so many questions are coming out about your program, but do you guys get nervous about those issues (e.g. Reggie Bush rent, limos, etc.)???

by BruinFan1 on Feb 10, 2007 9:44 AM PST 0 recs

Nervous?

Sorry bout the double post

Reggie's thing makes me a little nervous.

Jarrett and McKnight do not.

Jarrett's issue was resolved in such a way that the University was not harmed. The NCAA recognized that Dwayne was not intentionally violating any rules so they had him pay restitution and he moved on. I expect the McKnight thing to totally blow over.

Reggie's deal however is a problem. If anyone at the University knew what was going on and did nothing, then I think we should pay the piper. If Reggie and his family acted alone, the only thing that can really happen to them is the loss of the Heisman. USC might be hit with sanctions even if they had no knowledge, so that makes me nervous.

From what I understand, the Reggie case isn't really moving forward towards any type of resolution because the Bush family wont cooperate with the NCAA. If a lawsuit proceeds, and there are depositions and court transcripts that the NCAA can study, then I can see the Reggie case going somewhere.

Who knows, the NCAA could drop the hammer on us, which a lot of Trojan fans are upset about. But really, theres nothing that we can do about it, so why bother worrying.

by frak on Feb 10, 2007 5:36 PM PST 0 recs

#1 = target

USC is arguably THE most successful cfb program in the past 5 years. Therefore, it's not surprising that its every move is examined under a microscope (if not a proctoscope at this point). No, I don't like it, but I understand that comes with the territory.

My problem starts with people lumping any and all accusations together and then trying to use that as "proof" that USC is doing something wrong. Personally, I differentiate poor decision-making on the part of 18-22 year-old college students from institutional corruption or ethics violations made by athletic department/university officials.

Secondly, different issues have different implications. The Reggie Bush situation may have an impact on USC if it's borne out that he violated NCAA rules because he was playing for USC at the time. That's not the same thing as saying USC was at fault, though, as that would require proving the university was (or should have been) aware of the violations at the time, which is a completely different issue. I think any one who thinks that USC should be tracking who makes the mortgage payments for every player's parents is living in a fantasy world. If someone at USC knew payments were being made, then I'm ready to hear the evidence and receive the appropriate punishment (again, assuming something untoward took place). I dunno what "limos" in your question refers to.

Accusation does not equal guilt, something we all should be grateful for should we ever find ourselves on the receiving end of a police officer's flashlight.

P.S. In the 2007 U.S. News and World Report annual college rankings guide of Top National Universities, UCLA is 26th and USC is tied for 27th. Big deal. The notion of some huge disparity in academics between the 2 schools is based on data from 25+ years ago, if it was ever true at all.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php

by Defender90 on Feb 10, 2007 5:54 PM PST 0 recs

I've been guilty too

We all know that this kind of scrutiny comes with the success we've had over the past few years. This would not be a headline story if it happend at almost any other school. Bottom line is the jealousy of fans from other schools.

I have to admit guilt in this area as well. Back in the 90s I hated Miami and Florida State. I latched onto any story about their wrongdoing because I wanted see them fail. I also wanted to find some sinister reason for their success. They must be cheating because my school wasn't doing that well - no way that was just because they had built a quality program. They may be winning, but at least my school was losing with dignity. Turns out we were just plain losing.

by bwren on Feb 11, 2007 8:59 AM PST 0 recs

violations going forward

There is a problem with lumping all violations together; not all violations are created equal. That said, I echo BruinFan's question: Are you (USC fans generally) at all nervous about what appears to be an increasing number of violations/potential violations in the football program? I agree that USC with its recently elevated profile makes an inviting target and may draw increased scrutiny that results in minor issues receiving more ink than warranted, but are you seeing any problems down the line(other than the Bush thing, which still needs to be fully investigated) with the seemingly increasing volume of allegations and findings of wrongdoing, even for minor issues?

As for academic rankings, I know that USC has improved significantly even from when I was at UCLA in the mid-to-late 80's which wasn't that long ago (i like to think so, at least.) Still, I believe that UCLA is and is considered to be a better overall academic institution, and it costs a hell of a lot less. Despite that, there are specific fields where USC is superior-film, communications, maybe others-but I am talking about general reputation. USC wasn't even within 10 spots of UCLA academically on the USN & WR rankings a decade ago (IIRC) and now they're just one spot back. I had heard that USC employs certain methodologies that inflate some of their reporting (IIRC, USC cherry-picks SAT scores and reports the highest score for each category regardless of when taken, whereas UCLA reports the best combined score from any single sitting), this alone does not explain the rise for USC. Kudos to USC for making an effort to improve its academic reputation. Won't stop me from mocking my USC friends that when we were all in school USC was merely a more expensive Orange Coast College, and when they start making the same points you guys are, I tell them, "When you start at the bottom you can only go up."<grin>

by ucladj89 on Feb 11, 2007 9:56 AM PST 0 recs

Allegations = allegations

I'll be nervous when potential violations are investigated and revealed to be actual violations. Increased scrutiny comes with success and USC fans just need to forbear. I have faith in Pete Carroll not only to do the right thing, but also not to let stupid things happen on his watch.

P.S. Both schools have solid academic reputations; that was my point. However, I look forward to the rationalizations when USC passes UCLA on the U.S. News list. hehe

by Defender90 on Feb 11, 2007 10:32 AM PST up 0 recs

Back in the day

ucladj89, we're near contemporaries (I graduated in 92).

FWIW, I turned down a place at Cal to go to SC. They got my attention with a scholarship that made it a wash on cost with the UC system. The School of International Relations was very strong at the time, which was a draw, and the Thematic Option freshman program put me in classes of ~20 with senior faculty from day one.

(Entertainingly, one of them had been poached from Princeton and used to spend a fair amount of time telling us how and why we were inferior to his old undergrads. Turned out later that my father in law did his BA and PhD at Princeton, way back in the day, and knew this prof then -- apparently he's always been an ass. And having had some face time with Ivy League undergrads since then, I think this professor was suffering from buyer's remorse rather than anything else.)

Anyway, my thought has always been that you get out of college what you put in. Reputations aside, the competition for academic positions means that most decent universities have good faculty from good programs, so you can go to USC (as I did) or Oregon (as my brother did) and get a huge amount out of it, even though the rankings for the university as a whole might not be there across the board.

As for increasing the academic profile of the school, they give out - literally - hundreds of academic scholarships per year. When President Sample took over in 1991 / 1992, a deliberate decision was made to spend money on new faculty and drawing better students. They seem to be well on the way.

by DC Trojan on Feb 11, 2007 11:27 PM PST up 0 recs

U$C academics

DC,

Many of my friends that attended USC out of high school received financial aid and several of them received something like what you did, thereby equalizing the cost between USC and UCLA. But the financial aid package would have to be very generous to equalize the cost; my last year at UCLA (1989) the cost was a whopping $450 or so per quarter!

I concur with your point re getting out of college what you put into it; I knew plenty of people when I went to law school that had graduated from San Diego State of Long Beach State, so obviously the lack of high academic standing had not hurt them very badly. Of course, USC is better than those schools and was better in the mid-80's.

The main point of mockery for me was the sheer number of wealthy morons that went to USC from my high school. I always felt that the quality of the education at USC wasn't the real problem for USC as far as comedic material; it was the trust fund kids whose daddys or grandparents made a pile in real estate or construction when not everything in LA or Orange County had been built, and whose descendants lacked the determination to do well academically and thus relied on the "generations of Trojans" in the family to get into USC. I went to high school in northern Orange County and it was amazing how many of these idiots got into USC when the best they would normally be expected to do would be a JC or maybe (on a stretch) Cal State. I knew exactly nobody at UCLA who was admitted due to family connections.

As I said before, I know USC has made a deliberate effort to improve its academic standing, and it appears that the effort is paying dividends, although I do question (again, going only by what I have heard) some of the methodologies that USC uses to improve its rankings in certain categories. Still, using some forms of methodology that may artificially boost USC's academic standing does not fully explain the rise in USC's academic stock, so it is clear that USC's efforts have been worthwhile, although perhaps some of the dim bulbs who used to attend USC may find their kids SOL when it comes time to fill out their college applications.

by ucladj89 on Feb 12, 2007 8:00 AM PST up 0 recs

Oh they were there

Re: financial aid packages: I was still on a green card so it was strictly out of pocket... I had a friend on the same scholarship as me whose parents had both taught at SC's medical school which meant tuition remission; he was actually making money by going to SC!

There definitely some interesting "legacies" about the place, no doubt about it. I managed to steer a course around most of them, fortunately.

They come in all flavors BTW; my brother tells me that Oregon was littered with wealthy trustafarians from southern California who came up to attend meetings of the Spartacist League and feel superior. When I was in grad school at Brown we used to call them the Volvo Proletariat; they would try and recruit me to the local socialist student group while wearing leather jackets that cost more than I made a month as a teaching assistant...

And I think you're right, I think that there have been some legacies who have been SOL over admissions. Which is fine by me.

by DC Trojan on Feb 12, 2007 9:27 AM PST up 0 recs

Cost

I was accepted to ucla and USC. I went to USC because they gave me a free ride through various scholarships that I received. ucla had nothing to offer in this arena in my case.

by frak on Feb 12, 2007 1:55 PM PST up 0 recs

McKnight

The Mcknight issue is a non story, pretty much conceived in the minds of LSU fans. There are links to his press conference, and he never said said he was on a conference call, etc.

What pretty much happened is that PC went into the heart of SEC country and stole one of the better prospects in years. LSU fans went completely batshit insane. It would have been bad enough if McKnight went to ole Miss, but to go all the way to California to play in a conference that every SEC fan considers inferior, well, that just blew their minds, what little they have.

All I can say is welcome to the SEC: where violations are so common that the average fan can recite NCAA regulations verbatim, where coaches at opposing stadiums enter and leave flanked by armed law enforcement personel, where fans spend tens of thousands on billboards on a two year old disputed national championship while a city drowns.

Anyway, it will blow over soon enough, and LSU will focus their hatred toward Saban. We think that SC and UCLA fans can be petty? We have nothing on the SEC.

As for ND? I think they are focused on Zook stealing two players they had pencilled in. If Zook is going to compete hard for the top Chicago area talent, ND has more to worry about than us.

by Zoulou on Feb 11, 2007 11:01 AM PST 0 recs

From Randy Newman

"And college men from LSU
Went in dumb - come out dumb too
Hustlin' 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues"

by Zoulou on Feb 11, 2007 11:05 AM PST 0 recs